True, except for the part about "competing" vehicles. Because there aren't any.
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Elon already said that the dual motor upgrade on the M3 would be less than the $5k price to upgrade the S/X. It's not going to be just a penny under that. I would expect at least $500 less but I'm hoping it's at least $1K.
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You're being too quick to push people away
Remember that Tesla cars are like the iPhones. Before the iPhone, the smart phones that were available were pretty crappy. The price of the iPhone was more than regular phones at the time, and people like me didn't like it, but I still adopted it starting with the 2nd iPhone, and it's been totally worth it.
It's going to be the same with Tesla and all future vehicles, in my opinion, especially as the technology (autopilot, primarily) becomes more and more compelling. People have to become accustomed to the higher price tag that is associated with it, but it will be worth it. That doesn't mean we aren't allowed to complain and are being suddenly told to stay away from Tesla.
The price I have to pay is always going to be on my mind no matter how much I'm spending.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Elon's quote is from Twitter and everything else in the comment was speculation based on common idiomatic English. When normal people say something is "less than $X" they usually mean a difference larger than a few cents.
mod note: Edited title to clarify that the price hasn't increased, and that we're talking about the Model S pricing.
wallet.dat
Member
Heck yeah! I'm going to have a Mod3 and Honda Civic Type-R in my garage once they both come out. So much fun
Waiting4M3
Active Member
To me Tesla's cost to go from RWD to "D" should be less than the cost to add 4WD and bigger engine in an ICE, because the engineering is simpler, and fewer moving parts.
As a comparison: BMW charges $2K for 4WD for the 3-series, and $5K to go from the 320i to 328i, where 0-60 gets faster by ~1 sec (6.7 down to 5.6). Tesla's Model S 70 vs 70D's 0-60 time is faster by 0.3 sec (5.5 down to 5.2). For marketing purpose, if I scale linearly, $7K for 1 sec faster (BMW), then ~$2K for 0.3 sec faster (Tesla). Combining the performance gain $2K to the $2K for 4WD, I expect paying $4K would be a fair price w.r.t. competitions for the Model 3, from a marketing perspective. But I'm hoping Tesla will charge less than $4K for the "D", $3K would be great.
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You have to keep mind that when you buy a 4wd car you are paying for a driveshaft, two axles and a differential in most cases. In an EV car you are getting an entire Motor, controller and two axles.
As far as the 0-60, it seems to me that Tesla is handicapping their cars. You are getting extra hp and torque, more traction, no drivetrain loss, some gain in weight and only gaining 0.3sec.....fishy.
While in a 4wd car you gain more drivetrain loss, more weight, more traction, better 0-60 and worse top end.
Does anyone how much hp does the second motor makes?
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Waiting4M3
Active Member
Looks like the "D" is more about better freeway efficiency, by adding a small motor for the front axle that can be more efficient at high speed. It doesn't add too much performance.
The bigger performance gain would probably come from the "P" model. The 2013 Model S performance model does 0-60 in 3.9 sec.
I wonder if the model 3 will have a "P" model. Maybe a base RWD like 55 and a 70, then 55D and 70D models, and a P70D model?
- Lets say the "D" upgrade pricing is $4K
- Pricing delta to go from 55kWh to 70: model S 60 to 75 is a $8.5K upgrade but it's a SW upgrade; going from 75D to 90D is $18K, but the P90D actually has a 100kWh battery (if I remember correctly), so I'm guessing the price delta for actual 15kWh battery would be ~$11K.
- Pricing delta for "P": The delta from model S 90D to P90D is $20K. Maybe "P" for model 3 it would be cheaper? say $15K.
alseTrick
Active Member
The efficency is in the regenerative braking when you can use 4 wheels to brake and not only 2, and.. by the way, the front wheels are the most efficent for regenerate since you are breaking and the car shift it's weight on the front wheels so more grip -> more regenerative capability
There is also the grip factor, where you are more able to drive in snow or in curves with water on the road
It's not much on the performance since the battery can't keep up with 2 motor at the same time at maximum power.. so the very little gain
Of course 2 motors make a more efficent acceleration and normal driving, but it's really limited ( as seen in the 8miles or similar you gain ), just remember that 2 motor means more weight, more weight, less performance. ( and this almost kill all the gain you got )
I would say that in highway they are have roguhtly the same efficence due to major weight
This.. as i've intended until now, someone can confirm?
There is also the grip factor, where you are more able to drive in snow or in curves with water on the road
It's not much on the performance since the battery can't keep up with 2 motor at the same time at maximum power.. so the very little gain
Of course 2 motors make a more efficent acceleration and normal driving, but it's really limited ( as seen in the 8miles or similar you gain ), just remember that 2 motor means more weight, more weight, less performance. ( and this almost kill all the gain you got )
I would say that in highway they are have roguhtly the same efficence due to major weight
This.. as i've intended until now, someone can confirm?
Everything in the Model 3 is made to be easier to produce/cheaper then the Model S counterpart. Motor + electronics + installation. They will also have lower margins on top of that.
X-drive on the BMW 3 series vs 7 series is $2000 vs $3000. I don't see why the same difference (in %) couldn't be applied to the Model 3/S.
X-drive on the BMW 3 series vs 7 series is $2000 vs $3000. I don't see why the same difference (in %) couldn't be applied to the Model 3/S.
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