Talk me IN or OUT

[gtmaster303]

Hello all,

Thank you for any help you can give me. I wanted some input about buying my first Tesla Model S. A little background: I am a huge car nerd and we’ve owned high end cars from most of the manufacturers (BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, etc.) and always bought used. Our formula has always been, 3 years old, 30-40k miles, you can get a lot of car. Never spent more than $30-40k on a car and buying parts online, knowing good independent mechanics, we’ve been able to keep higher end cars running for very reasonable amounts – we’re not scared of owning them. Ex: Oil changes are never more than $20-30, brake jobs done for under $500 all 4 corners.

However I want something innovative, Tesla is the only manufacturer that offers it. Therefore I’m toying with the idea of buying one, however I’m hesitant about the purchase. To get a car in warranty, it would be well beyond 40k. And out of warranty cars are cheaper, but out of warranty repairs terrify me. I think Tesla won’t even sell parts to third parties, and I doubt I have any mechanics that can work on it.

Questions/concerns I have:

Any specific model/year you would suggest for my first Tesla, given my history?

What are typical repair/running costs like, assuming things break? Can independent mechanics fix these cars now?

I’ve heard range can be cut in half in colder climates, brakes can rust away from non-use – I live in NJ

I can increase my budget to 60k, but is it worth it? That’s nearly double what I’ve ever paid for a car


TL DR: I’m considering buying a Tesla, but it’s probably the most expensive car I’ve ever bought, and I’m concerned about keeping it running for a reasonable amount. Should I make the jump?

 

[KyleDay]

Buy at least a 2018 or newer S, try to get a 100kwh pack.

Don't expect the interior to be on par with German brands - it's a cheap interior.

The car will be far more fun to drive than anything you've owned (it's not a track car, but a great commuter).

 

[gtmaster303]

Sorry, one thing I forgot to mention, I'm only looking at dual motor cars. I want the AWD for the winter snow

 

[Ostrichsak]

Budget? You've already got people suggesting $80k cars without knowing your budget.

 

[gtmaster303]

Budget? You've already got people suggesting $80k cars without knowing your budget.

Ideally I'd like to stick to my formula of 40k max, but I know that may not be practical with this car. I'm all about the value, so my budget is flexible if spending more will get me more for my money. I think anything past 60k would make me uncomfortable

 

[MiamiDubai]

Here’s a 2017 90D for $52,700 which is under your $60,000 budget.

2017 Model S | Tesla

It’s Dual Motor
90KW pack (290+ range)
AP2
4 year/50k mile warranty (Covered until 2024, and 96,216 miles)

Caveat: previously repaired. Might have been a minor accident, might have been major. Tesla probably won’t disclose.

I personally wouldn’t own a Tesla out of warranty due to the high cost of repair and the monopoly on repair facilities.

Another 90D for $56,100
Warranty until 2024 and 76,267 miles
2017 Model S | Tesla
Caveat: Preciously repaired

Go with the biggest battery you can get and AP2.
Cold weather will eat thru your range.

 

[TigerNinety]

About six weeks ago, I got a 2016 S75D with Full Self Driving and unlimited supercharging and only 18K miles for less than $55K. You can get the same car for less than $50K, if you accept higher mileage and more wear. My range at full charge is 246 miles, or 220 at the daily 80% recommended level. I don’t think you get a lot more car between 2016 and today, base range aside.

Search around the forum, and feel free to ask lots of questions. It’s a friendly place!

 

[CapeOne]

However I want something innovative, Tesla is the only manufacturer that offers it. Therefore I’m toying with the idea of buying one, however I’m hesitant about the purchase. To get a car in warranty, it would be well beyond 40k. And out of warranty cars are cheaper, but out of warranty repairs terrify me.

A used Tesla with a good warranty does not have to be "well beyond $40k." You can get a used Tesla Model S dual motor (AWD) with a full 4 years/50k miles limited warranty for as little as $44,500 through Tesla right now, and there have been ones cheaper than that.
2016 Model S | Tesla

You can also get newer Model 3s with dual motor (AWD) and balance of 4/50 warranty for low $40s through Tesla right now, and there have been ones cheaper than that as well.

You also don't have to limit yourself to only Tesla-sourced cars as there are extended warranties available for Teslas through X-Care.
X-Care - Xcelerate Auto

 

[MIT_S60]

A used Tesla with a good warranty does not have to be "well beyond $40k." You can get a used Tesla Model S dual motor (AWD) with a full 4 years/50k miles limited warranty for as little as $44,500 through Tesla right now, and there have been ones cheaper than that.
2016 Model S | Tesla

You can also get newer Model 3s with dual motor (AWD) and balance of 4/50 warranty for low $40s through Tesla right now, and there have been ones cheaper than that as well.

You also don't have to limit yourself to only Tesla-sourced cars as there are extended warranties available for Teslas through X-Care.
X-Care - Xcelerate Auto

That one has AP1. I'd recommend OP to find one with AP2 (ideally which already has FSD) and then pay for the MCU upgrade to get many of the modern features. Being in a cold weather climate might be a good reason to go for a larger battery, but if OP doesn't drive long distances and has another family car, the S75D might be sufficient.

 

[Tam]

...What are typical repair/running costs like, assuming things break? Can independent mechanics fix these cars now?...

There are some basic services that a non-Tesla mechanic can fix such as Tires and Brakes service, 12V battery replacement...

Some may cost thousands from Tesla but a do-it-yourself style mechanic can fix them for cheap such as when the onboard charger or HVAC is out of order, it might only need a cheap swap of fuses.

Same with central screen display failure, a do-it-yourself can just unsolder and resolder a new memory chip eMMC.

But for the general public, I would encourage some kind of warranty because Tesla repairs are expensive (maybe not as much as BMW but certainly more than Toyota.)

...brakes can rust away from non-use – I live in NJ...

The brakes are just like your Honda, BMW brakes so if rust happens in other brands, it should too with Tesla.

...I’ve heard range can be cut in half in colder climates...

Cold climates do cut the range but drag racing in hot weather can cut the range in half too!

Thus, you might want to buy the longest battery range available.

...is it worth it?...

That depends on what you want and what you get out of it.

I used to buy cheap cars like Ford Escort. I then got tired of smelling and paying for gasoline so I broke my habit and paid the most costly car in my life at that time: Toyota Prius. I couldn't afford a Tesla Roadster a few years later but I kept saving my money until I could buy a new 2012 Model S and it's been totally worth it for me.

Since I got Tesla, I realize that it's not just about me hating smelling gasoline but also that I have been now spoiled with all the technologies from performance, driving automation to self-opening/closing driver door of Model X...

 

[AhwatukeeDad]

I think you should stick with plan and buy used BMW, Porsche or Mercedes. You haven’t listed any reason for getting a Tesla but a much of reasons why you love your way of buying cars. I say keep it continue.

 

[rosegrif1]

I would say do something NEW - experience something DIFFERENT - Amazing opportunity to be able to do something like this that most humans never have the option to do.

Get a new Model S LR and tell us about it

 

[qingshan]

You didn't say if you had S class, 7 series or smaller models. If the former you're an S man. If the latter you're a 3 man. Both can be found easily in your budget but any 3 has newer tech than the S in that range

 

[Ostrichsak]

Here’s a 2017 90D for $52,700 which is under your $60,000 budget.

2017 Model S | Tesla

It’s Dual Motor
90KW pack (290+ range)
AP2
4 year/50k mile warranty (Covered until 2024, and 96,216 miles)

Caveat: previously repaired. Might have been a minor accident, might have been major. Tesla probably won’t disclose.

I personally wouldn’t own a Tesla out of warranty due to the high cost of repair and the monopoly on repair facilities.

Another 90D for $56,100
Warranty until 2024 and 76,267 miles
2017 Model S | Tesla
Caveat: Preciously repaired

Go with the biggest battery you can get and AP2.
Cold weather will eat thru your range.

I would STRONGLY urge you to research buying used cars from Tesla. Give more weight to the more recent stories/experiences as those are more in line with the experience you'll receive if you make that same mistake. Also understand that these horror stories aren't the exception but the rule as it's not a few bad employees or the system is broken because it's working exactly as designed. The prices can be good but the experience and often times the cars themselves are nightmareish. The worst part is that when (not "if") you do have a problem you won't be able to call or talk to anyone about said problem, by design. I've bought three used Model S from Telsa and each one was progressively worse in terms of Tesla having no idea what's going on. My last two were private party after those experiences and they were night and day better. I'd pay more to buy from a private party plus you'll get more in terms of what Tesla takes away from the cars they sell.

Don't take anyone's word here, including mine. Research. Research. Research.

 

[qingshan]

I would STRONGLY urge you to research buying used cars from Tesla. Give more weight to the more recent stories/experiences as those are more in line with the experience you'll receive if you make that same mistake. Also understand that these horror stories aren't the exception but the rule as it's not a few bad employees or the system is broken because it's working exactly as designed. The prices can be good but the experience and often times the cars themselves are nightmareish. The worst part is that when (not "if") you do have a problem you won't be able to call or talk to anyone about said problem, by design. I've bought three used Model S from Telsa and each one was progressively worse in terms of Tesla having no idea what's going on. My last two were private party after those experiences and they were night and day better. I'd pay more to buy from a private party plus you'll get more in terms of what Tesla takes away from the cars they sell.

Don't take anyone's word here, including mine. Research. Research. Research.

Can't argue with that. I got mine used but it wasn't from Tesla. I couldn't be happier unless the frunk had been full of gold coins

 

[heems]

I had a 09 CLS550 bought used in 09 with 9k miles for $56K. Pretty much followed your formula of a slightly used luxury car. Good value for a retail $90K car. When it came time to buying a Tesla the compromises I had to make in cost, tech, range, style (albeit subjective but S interior is way grandpa for me) for a Model S in the same price point ~50K as before were simply too much. I bought a 3P (stealth) brand new for that price after incentives. Latest tech (battery, motors, electronics/mcu), full warranty, super car fast, best range and sleek interior design. If you are willing to change perspective you can get a hell of a car for $45-$50 from Tesla - 3 or Y.

 

[David29]

That one has AP1. I'd recommend OP to find one with AP2 (ideally which already has FSD) and then pay for the MCU upgrade to get many of the modern features. Being in a cold weather climate might be a good reason to go for a larger battery, but if OP doesn't drive long distances and has another family car, the S75D might be sufficient.

I do not think a first-time owner needs AP2 let alone FSD, especially given that the OP is used to driving used cars which, by definition, never have the latest technology.

In my own case, my Tesla was the first new car I ever bought in 48 years of owning cars. Prior to that, I had never paid more then $15,000 for a car, and always drove Mercedes. So to me, even having Bluetooth and navigation were new experiences! If people just want to drive, they do not need to start lusting after AP2 right out of the box. And FSD is a waste of money in my opinion, until and unless it ever works much better than it does now. My car's AP1 is much more reliable than AP2 at what it does, and it still is imperfect and requires monitoring.

I would add one more caution to the OP: How much are you going to depend upon this car? If you buy a used one, the Tesla used-car warranty will protect you from the cost of repairs, but it won't help you avoid having the car out of service. My car has just over 50,000 miles and is currently laid up and unable to drive for two weeks because of a parking brake caliper failure. I have another week to go before my service appointment. Two years ago, my car was tied up for two weeks because of the steering rack failure. Fortunately in that case, Roadside Assistance brought the car to the service center, and they gave me a loaner that I drove for the two weeks it took to get parts. There was a recall on the rack, so it would have been free even if the car was out of warranty, but if no loaner had been available, I would have had no car for 2 weeks. So that is my only caution -- but since the OP is used to driving used cars, I assume and trust that he is also willing to take the risk of needing alternate transportation!

 

[TigerNinety]

I would STRONGLY urge you to research buying used cars from Tesla. Give more weight to the more recent stories/experiences as those are more in line with the experience you'll receive if you make that same mistake. Also understand that these horror stories aren't the exception but the rule as it's not a few bad employees or the system is broken because it's working exactly as designed. The prices can be good but the experience and often times the cars themselves are nightmareish. The worst part is that when (not "if") you do have a problem you won't be able to call or talk to anyone about said problem, by design. I've bought three used Model S from Telsa and each one was progressively worse in terms of Tesla having no idea what's going on. My last two were private party after those experiences and they were night and day better. I'd pay more to buy from a private party plus you'll get more in terms of what Tesla takes away from the cars they sell.

Don't take anyone's word here, including mine. Research. Research. Research.

I agree with some of the above points, but have to quibble with some, too.

Was my first attempt to buy used through Tesla a swing and a miss? Yes, but I got all my money back ($100) after a few e-mails, a better result than “policy” might have predicted.

Is Tesla’s used purchase site suboptimal? Yes, so run straight to EVCPO.com and research, research, research. I fine tuned my parameters for more than three months. And, call Tesla and ask the sales rep a LOT of questions about the SPECIFIC car you’re looking at. A good one will look at every picture with you.

On the “when you have a problem” part, I’d quibble. Not long after I got my car, I got an error indicating my camera needed to be realigned. The error came and went. But I was able to get Tesla support on the phone and they started me through troubleshooting. (Unfortunately, I lost the call after they told me to reboot the main computer in the car.) Anyway, ultimately I scheduled a service center visit. The techs were helpful and stated right away what they thought the issue and fix were (a borderline camera pitch issue, which explained the coming-and-going). By the end of the day, I was back in my Tesla, and everything has been fine since.

Have some (too many?) posters here had bad experiences? Yes. Does that make it a rule? I don’t think so.

I do think that most of us here (eg those without a high risk tolerance and/or a desire to do some advanced repair work on their own) would say get a warranty, either from Tesla or X-care. Repairs can be expensive.

Todd

 

[Ostrichsak]

I do not think a first-time owner needs AP2 let alone FSD, especially given that the OP is used to driving used cars which, by definition, never have the latest technology.

In my own case, my Tesla was the first new car I ever bought in 48 years of owning cars. Prior to that, I had never paid more then $15,000 for a car, and always drove Mercedes. So to me, even having Bluetooth and navigation were new experiences! If people just want to drive, they do not need to start lusting after AP2 right out of the box. And FSD is a waste of money in my opinion, until and unless it ever works much better than it does now. My car's AP1 is much more reliable than AP2 at what it does, and it still is imperfect and requires monitoring.

I would add one more caution to the OP: How much are you going to depend upon this car? If you buy a used one, the Tesla used-car warranty will protect you from the cost of repairs, but it won't help you avoid having the car out of service. My car has just over 50,000 miles and is currently laid up and unable to drive for two weeks because of a parking brake caliper failure. I have another week to go before my service appointment. Two years ago, my car was tied up for two weeks because of the steering rack failure. Fortunately in that case, Roadside Assistance brought the car to the service center, and they gave me a loaner that I drove for the two weeks it took to get parts. There was a recall on the rack, so it would have been free even if the car was out of warranty, but if no loaner had been available, I would have had no car for 2 weeks. So that is my only caution -- but since the OP is used to driving used cars, I assume and trust that he is also willing to take the risk of needing alternate transportation!

Agree 100% on AP1 v AP2. So many people like to make it seem like AP1 is worthless (I suspect because they "invested" in that scam) but my experience it does the things I use AP for better than AP2. I suspect it will be a # of years until Tesla firms up that foundation though as they've focused resources fully on FSD which is still a pipe dream to this point. Too bad they didn't put more effort into making the basic functions (the ones you use 99% of the time) work better in AP2 as it does in AP1 which Mobileye did the software for. Once Tesla brought that piece in-house there's bee a LOT of growing pains that they still haven't ironed out fully.

I'll stick with my "cheap AP1" cars and let others pay the premium for the privilege of beta testing AP2 for Tesla.

 

[ngng]

Here are some cars that are over/under your range: