Taycan Takedown

[groovidad]

Considering the nexus of this thread, it has morphed into “track” performance. I believe most would agree to being “street drivers”(?). That aside, would most of you agree, sitting at a traffic light with a clear path to the next (let’s say 1/8 OR 1/4 mile for sake of argument) running against (most production ICE sports cars) that a P3D or even a DM/LR with max SoC, would leave the ICE, and wait for the ICE to meet it at the next light? Further, the EV Taycan, which is a “2-speed transmission” would possibly share the same fate? I’m just curious. I’m not making a “statement”, just interested in what folks think. I’m not a “track” runner. “Street” is my world and my experience has been favorable and respected, even if begrudgingly.

 

[IraB]

Unfortunately (for 911) it is the case. This MT article did not mention 911 but it did compare it to Cayman GT4 which would smoke a regular 911 on track every time.
Tesla Model 3 Performance Track Mode (Release Version): Ludicrous Handling - MotorTrend
.
JAD is a Porsche track event instructor and also P3D owner. This is his experience. Read through his comments to learn how capable P3D is on track in capable hands.
Big track review of Track Mode | Tesla

Cayman GT4 does not smoke a 911 S, at least according to fastestlaps.com. For example, Laguna Seca 1:37.43 vs. 1:36.44; Hockenheim Short 1:10.1 vs. 1:09.6; Nurburgring 7:42 vs. 7:34.

I'm not sure a P3D could even get around the Nurburgring without some performance degradation. Meanwhile, I would bet large sums that the Taycan will post some very respectable times.

Again, not denigrating the P3D, it is a very nice car and I enjoy driving mine every day. But it is NOT in the same league as a 911 no matter how much the fanboys might wish otherwise.

 

[evalst2018]

LOL, how did Tesla get this reputation that they are somehow leading in SW?!

I fell for this myself (didn’t research it, just got suckered into the reality distortion field).

Teslas autonomy software is a total mess. Performance of automated assistance features is embarrassingly primitive for 2019.

I’ve never felt like my Macan tries to kill me.

AP on my P3 is a dangerous combo of slick presentation and primitive object recognition. Tesla’s software looks like it’s the worst quality part of my P3. How does something like that even pass QC? Phantom braking, dancing cars, misidentification of lanes.

No disagreement about the other points (power electronics, battery tech) but SW, no, Tesla is not better than Porsche. Tesla can’t even get blind spot monitoring to work as reliably as in my Macan. And where is the 360 birds eye view? And Apple Car Play?

They keep firing the AP software team probably because Elon is tired of moving the FSD date. Real-time fsd is a really hard problem when you open it up to all roads all use cases, all weather, all road conditions...

 

[groovidad]

They keep firing the AP software team probably because Elon is tired of moving the FSD date. Real-time fsd is a really hard problem when you open it up to all roads all use cases, all weather, all road conditions...

I agree. Maybe they should focus on “main arteries” and work on secondary along the way(?)

 

[Shizzrock]

10.54s

the two speed transmission?

So that means either the Taycan traps higher than 124mph or does a 1/4 mile in under ten seconds. I just don't think those are the numbers.

 

[IraB]

So that means either the Taycan traps higher than 124mph or does a 1/4 mile in under ten seconds. I just don't think those are the numbers.

Not so hard to believe. The Model S Raven goes 10.5 @ 127, so it traps well above 124 and may be able to hit 124 in 10 or less. Porsche keeps saying the Taycan is optimized for higher speeds for the autobahn.

 

[Shizzrock]

Not so hard to believe. The Model S Raven goes 10.5 @ 127, so it traps well above 124 and may be able to hit 124 in 10 or less. Porsche keeps saying the Taycan is optimized for higher speeds for the autobahn.

yeah I hear you, but it does 0-60 in over 3 seconds, so one of those numbers is off.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Not so hard to believe. The Model S Raven goes 10.5 @ 127, so it traps well above 124 and may be able to hit 124 in 10 or less. Porsche keeps saying the Taycan is optimized for higher speeds for the autobahn.

And Teslas have much lower trap speeds than cars with comparable 1/4 mile times because they launch so well and their HP drops off at high speeds. For example a Corvette ZR1 does 10.6s @136mph.

 

[Daniel in SD]

yeah I hear you, but it does 0-60 in over 3 seconds, so one of those numbers is off.

They're now saying it will do 0-60 in less than 3 seconds. I think all the numbers will line up. Probably will be ~10.5s at ~130mph

 

[Shizzrock]

They're now saying it will do 0-60 in less than 3 seconds. I think all the numbers will line up. Probably will be ~10.5s at ~130mph

then damn son

 

[RonFTW]

They're now saying it will do 0-60 in less than 3 seconds. I think all the numbers will line up. Probably will be ~10.5s at ~130mph

This for Taycan Turbo?

 

[Daniel in SD]

This for Taycan Turbo?

Knowing Porsche it will require $50k in options.

 

[CarlK]

This for Taycan Turbo?

Turbo S.

 

[RonFTW]

Turbo S.

$200k car at that point.

 

[VT_EE]

$200k car at that point.

That’s Roadster territory.

 

[Rottenapplr]

I love this car! This is a win for EVs and a cleaner world folks.

 

[voip-ninja]

Considering the nexus of this thread, it has morphed into “track” performance. I believe most would agree to being “street drivers”(?). That aside, would most of you agree, sitting at a traffic light with a clear path to the next (let’s say 1/8 OR 1/4 mile for sake of argument) running against (most production ICE sports cars) that a P3D or even a DM/LR with max SoC, would leave the ICE, and wait for the ICE to meet it at the next light? Further, the EV Taycan, which is a “2-speed transmission” would possibly share the same fate? I’m just curious. I’m not making a “statement”, just interested in what folks think. I’m not a “track” runner. “Street” is my world and my experience has been favorable and respected, even if begrudgingly.

What I think is that this is still an apples to oranges comparison. Even if the 0-60 stop light drag race times are close it will matter little to those who are interested in owning an electrified Porsche.

I'll put it another way. The performance of a $45,000 Subaru WRX is not that far behind from a $75,000 BMW M3. Clearly only an idiot would "waste money" on a BMW M3*. For that matter what kind of complete moron buys a Rolex or Omega or Tag for $10,000 when they can buy a $200 Casio that tells better time?

*Pro tip, the M3 is better, has better service, better interior, built like a bank vault, has a ton of cachet and exclusivity, etc.

 

[tvad]

What I think is that this is still an apples to oranges comparison. Even if the 0-60 stop light drag race times are close it will matter little to those who are interested in owning an electrified Porsche.

I'll put it another way. The performance of a $45,000 Subaru WRX is not that far behind from a $75,000 BMW M3. Clearly only an idiot would "waste money" on a BMW M3*. For that matter what kind of complete moron buys a Rolex or Omega or Tag for $10,000 when they can buy a $200 Casio that tells better time?

*Pro tip, the M3 is better, has better service, better interior, built like a bank vault, has a ton of cachet and exclusivity, etc.

Well stated.

 

[andy92782]

Again, not denigrating the P3D, it is a very nice car and I enjoy driving mine every day. But it is NOT in the same league as a 911 no matter how much the fanboys might wish otherwise.

Funny... the car my Model 3 replaced was a 911 (997.2). The Porsche was phenomenal on twisty two-lane roads but in all other driving conditions, frankly, it sucked. Loud, rough ride, nose scraped even modest driveways, parking paranoia. The Model 3 is far better suited for daily driving, even if it sacrifices the fun factor on mountain roads.

Keep in mind, my budget does not allow for simultaneous ownership of a new Porsche (911) and a Model 3. There is only enough garage space and money for one car, so for me - and I suspect for many others - the Model 3 wins easily.

As for the Taycan, I think it will be dynamically impressive. I also think these preliminary media reports are based on the higher-end offerings, ie Taycan GTS or Taycan "Turbo" (frankly hilarious naming). These are gonna be $140K cars easy. The base models will not have dual motors and they'll have smaller batteries and I doubt they'll be able to compete with the Model 3 on range. We already know it'll be years before they can compete with Tesla in terms of a fast DC charging network.

 

[cucubits]

*Pro tip, the M3 is better, has better service, better interior, built like a bank vault, has a ton of cachet and exclusivity, etc.

) While reading this I was ready to get triggered but then I realized you were talking about the BMW.

Too many started calling the Model 3 "M3" too.