Tesla 2018 disengagement report

[Bladerskb]

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/c...596f2625a7f/TeslaMotors.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CVID=

We know without a doubt they are testing things using the employee program in CA and there's no way you can develop a system without your engineers actually testing it on public roads. Can't believe the CA DMV will let them get away with not reporting disengagements.

 

[boonedocks]

Since Elon calls NavigateOnAutopilot FullSelfDriving (which he did in the last earnings call) then I have had many disengagements and I certainly can't be alone and that report can't be true. LOL LOL LOL (kinda kidding kinda not)

 

[Bladerskb]

Looks like the link was temporary taken down

 

[MP3Mike]

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/c...596f2625a7f/TeslaMotors.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CVID=

We know without a doubt they are testing things using the employee program in CA and there's no way you can develop a system without your engineers actually testing it on public roads. Can't believe the CA DMV will let them get away with not reporting disengagements.

I thought that the rules were such that if you have a nag system in place to keep the driver engaged that you don't have to include that activity in the annual disengagements report. So you could say that Tesla is gaming the system to keep their progress, or lack thereof, under wraps.

 

[ZeApelido]

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/c...596f2625a7f/TeslaMotors.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CVID=

We know without a doubt they are testing things using the employee program in CA and there's no way you can develop a system without your engineers actually testing it on public roads. Can't believe the CA DMV will let them get away with not reporting disengagements.

Let me guess, frauds right?

 

[KyleDay]

I've been waiting and hoping that this report would show some glimmer of hope. Once again, I'm disappointed.

 

[kbM3]

Wasted thread. As an ADAS, there is no disengagement reporting requirement.

 

[_jmk]

Right. I doubt there is any magical tesla development in existence, they release things they have as they get them working.. somehow.

 

[KyleDay]

The evidence is clear - they don't have anything working.

 

[Bladerskb]

I thought that the rules were such that if you have a nag system in place to keep the driver engaged that you don't have to include that activity in the annual disengagements report. So you could say that Tesla is gaming the system to keep their progress, or lack thereof, under wraps.

Nah because one of the things safety drivers are told during testing is to have their hands on the wheel. so the "i have my hands on the wheel thing" doesn't fly, didn't fly for Uber.

CA DMV simply doesn't care and letting Tesla get away with not reporting.
The report is back up. instead of talking about their disengagement, they talk about the PR "Autopilot safety stats" from Q3 and Q4.

strange for a company that is claiming to be on the verge of releasing Level 5 autonomy any day now.

 

[banned-66611]

Am I missing something? Tesla say they are not testing cars in autonomous mode on public roads, are you saying that's a lie?

The Tesla system seems to be a long, long way from being capable of autonomous operation at this point. Shadow mode and AP with hands on the wheel don't count for this stat.

To me it reads like they put all that crap in the letter about their fleet and worthless shadow mode etc. to pad it out and try to obscure the fact that they aren't even doing real world tests yet, despite claiming they would do coast-to-coast in 2017 and having taken many people's money for it as far back as 2016.

 

[Inside]

Quick question for Bladerskb...
At the bottom of every one of your posts there's this line that says Disagree by MP3Mike, even posts that you made like 1 minute before I read them. Is that just part of your signature?

 

[croman]

This report only covers until December 2018. Tesla has only recently received and started installing HW3 hardware in test vehicles. It is possible, however unlikely, that Tesla only began accumulating reportable autonomous vehicle mileage and disengagements for the 2019 report which spans December 2018 to December 2019.

That being said, I entirely agree that Tesla deceptively marketed their FSD and FSD progress. Clearly by not logging any miles they are failing to test any FSD software or features. So while the report might have some caveats that disguise potential FSD progress, it confirms a total lack of progress on implementation for Dec 2017 and nearly all of 2018. To say that Tesla is "in the lead" in the race to FSD is clearly to ignore the value in real world miles and real world testing.

 

[MP3Mike]

That being said, I entirely agree that Tesla deceptively marketed their FSD and FSD progress. Clearly by not logging any miles they are failing to test any FSD software or features. So while the report might have some caveats that disguise potential FSD progress, it confirms a total lack of progress on implementation for Dec 2017 and nearly all of 2018. To say that Tesla is "in the lead" in the race to FSD is clearly to ignore the value in real world miles and real world testing.

No, Tesla is using a "loop hole" to hide their testing in plain sight. By requiring the nag even on their FSD implementation the miles driven don't qualify to be included in the California report. Sure it looks bad to some people because hey Tesla is so far behind they haven't even started testing. While in reality they just aren't sharing with the world how much testing they are doing and how many, or how few, disengagements they have.

The only time they reported disengagements was in 2016 when they turned off the nag feature to make the promotional video.

 

[DanCar]

Here is what California law states: Driverless Testing of Autonomous Vehicles
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/c...Adopted_Regulatory_Text.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CVID=
Quote: An autonomous test vehicle does not include vehicles equipped with one or more systems that provide driver assistance and/or enhance safety benefits but are not capable of, singularly or in combination, performing the dynamic driving task on a sustained basis without the constant control or active monitoring of a natural person.

The law is vague. Tesla can decide their vehicles are not capable of driverless on sustained basis and thus skirt reporting requirements in California. Tesla can test night and day in any other state and not worry about reporting too .

 

[Seattle Tom]

Tesla stopped reporting after the DMV report a few years ago shone a bad light on their disengagements compared to other companies. Heck, Elon admitted they were testing in December:

Already testing traffic lights, stop signs & roundabouts in development software. Your Tesla will soon be able to go from your garage at home to parking at work with no driver input at all.
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) December 9, 2018

Can’t it be only one of two answers?

A) All this testing is happening outside of California, which I suppose is possible...though unlikely.
B) None of this counts as “autonomous” driving, which seems like a generous interpretation.

 

[MP3Mike]

Tesla stopped reporting after the DMV report a few years ago shone a bad light on their disengagements compared to other companies. Heck, Elon admitted they were testing in December:

I think Tesla just prefers to operate privately and isn't concerned with competing publicly, based on stats.

The only reason they reported in 2016 was because they turned the nag off so they could shoot the promo video. Then they turned the nag back on and continued testing privately.

 

[croman]

I think Tesla just prefers to operate privately and isn't concerned with competing publicly, based on stats.

The only reason they reported in 2016 was because they turned the nag off so they could shoot the promo video. Then they turned the nag back on and continued testing privately.

Just stop Mike. You aren't a lawyer. You can jab disagree but it doesn't change reality.

 

[banned-66611]

Already testing traffic lights, stop signs & roundabouts in development software. Your Tesla will soon be able to go from your garage at home to parking at work with no driver input at all.
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) December 9, 2018

Come on though, if Musk says autonomous driving features are coming "soon", that probably means they are years away. Aside from anything else, unless you live and work on the highway then AP isn't even supposed to be used on local roads.

 

[R.S]

Well, to be honest here I am not a big fan of how Tesla is communicating their FSD progress.

BUT you can test elsewhere than California.

Still seems like they aren't good enough to show it, but I guess they are doing real world testing, just not in CA.