Tesla - a software company that just happen to make cars

[phil4]

I've heard that said many times, and to a certain extent explains why the physical cars are not normal (eg. QA etc), and the software in them is awesome.

But they can't even get their own website to work properly.

Yesterday after someone sorting out my trade-in properly, it said I owed, £7107.22. Not a problem, exactly what I was expecting so that's what I paid.

This morning it shows that payment received (yay!), but has now decided I owe £1.

I've attached the finance page... so a few things to note... You'll see towards the top, Cash Down Payment - £8000. If you then look at the Payments received you'll see my £7107.22, and below that the Positive Trade In: £892.78, add those together and guess what? £8000 on the nail.

Better yet, Amount due shows £1 as stated above, but the instructions say to wire £0 to their account.

So even when it comes to some pretty simple maths, they can't seem to get it right. What hope does FSD ever have?

 

[Brando]

CAR company that happens to write software.

Complex product, such as a car, can't/shouldn't be boiled down to one thing.
size, color, utility, range, acceleration, speed, update improvements, fun, comfort, safety, talking points/conversation starter, cost of ownership, cost of operation, life expectancy, handling .... and more.

currency exchange, taxes & registration often % and not a fixed fee

yeah, I think the world has gotten too complex ... but then people used to read books, think sun shine was good for you and fresh air too and wearing a mask was only for criminals and people died from many things including the flu every year - especially if over 80 and in nursing homes.

first world whining...

 

[squarepeg77]

I trust the people doing their website/billing are not seconded to functional safety software responsible for two tonnes of metal/lithium/humans travelling at 70mph

My invoice on the website still shows the £4000 trade in *offer* for my Prius, that I didn’t take them up on. (On the run up to collection, I thought I was going to come out £4000 up on the deal, but they weren’t that sloppy!)

 

[gaswalla]

actually, they are a battery company... an energy company at heart... that make a bunch of products like cars, solar, home batteries, and software to run them

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

It’s a mentality where being the first mover on new stuff is seen as everything so throw stuff out and worry about it later. Any boring stuff like invoicing isn’t a feature you differentiate on so invest minimally. Unfortunately nobody chooses their car based in automatic windscreen wiping so that gets minimal attention too for years. Tesla have taken it to a new level where they throw promises out there and work to get a first iteration but poorly performing revolutionary feature in the market rather than test it to death and take the view it needs to last 6 years. The early MS cars had new motors on a very regular basis, battery swaps were pretty common, 12v battery is still an issue, then the whole FSD journey. Many software updates are bug fixes or largely trivial feature enhancements. The minimum viable product fashion shows through too, and anyone involved in MVPs and really understands it recognises that you can back yourself into a corner, it’s why sentry mode is so power hungry because no low energy mode is supported by the hardware.

So I’m not sure it’s software or technology per se, it’s more a development philosophy and mindset that focuses on new stuff that differentiates rather than nailing the hygiene of good testing and boring functional stuff. That stuff eventually catches up with you though like the choice of eMMC, high power drain mentioned, lack of 2FA and a million apps thrashing away at the API, erroneous “window open” messages on the back of a new feature because the window mechanism was not a priority area when it was developed and its calibration drifting is now exposed. I wonder how many car alarms were not being set due to the car thinking the window was open but nobody realised? But this mindset approach is the way most CIOs and CTOs are wanting to go

 

[Sean.]

Anyone who owns a Tesla is a beta tester.

You can either embrace that or at some point in the ownership ‘journey’, typically once you’ve experienced that one fault or failure too many, wistfully glance at the state of play the (rapidly advancing) competition are up to (hello Taycan) and think fudge that.

It’s where I’m at after 3 years to be honest. Illusory promises and no knickers.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

For a long time, Tesla have really been the only player in the market for an EV as an everyday car, with long range and decent performance. That's beginning to change now, though, and if makers with a good reputation for getting things right first time get a strong foothold then I suspect the attitude to Tesla may change. Right now, there are far too many of us prepared to put up with mediocre build quality and pretty dire QA overall, because there are other factors about Tesla ownership that outweigh the niggles, like the Supercharger network and the performance, plus, perhaps, for some, the "I'm a Tesla fanboy" perceived kudos.

Tesla see batteries and the energy market as their core business, anyway. Elon Musk mentioned a short time ago that this was worth more to them than the car business, just because it's a lot bigger market. It's probably far less hassle dealing with energy companies, too, as they'll only have to handle a few hundred customers rather than millions of them.

 

[phil4]

All of that

Don't worry, going to take make sure I have a £1 coin with me at collection... just in case.

 

[squarepeg77]

A bag of 100 pennies surely?

 

[Glan gluaisne]

A bag of 100 pennies surely?

In context, I believe it probably needs to be 240 pennies

 

[Sean.]

For a long time, Tesla have really been the only player in the market for an EV as an everyday car, with long range and decent performance. That's beginning to change now, though, and if makers with a good reputation for getting things right first time get a strong foothold then I suspect the attitude to Tesla may change. Right now, there are far too many of us prepared to put up with mediocre build quality and pretty dire QA overall, because there are other factors about Tesla ownership that outweigh the niggles, like the Supercharger network and the performance, plus, perhaps, for some, the "I'm a Tesla fanboy" perceived kudos.

Tesla see batteries and the energy market as their core business, anyway. Elon Musk mentioned a short time ago that this was worth more to them than the car business, just because it's a lot bigger market. It's probably far less hassle dealing with energy companies, too, as they'll only have to handle a few hundred customers rather than millions of them.

100%.

All things considered, do you think you’d have another one in a few years? If you’d asked me 2 years ago I’d have said yes without question.

Now the only thing holding me to the (car) brand is the supercharger network.

 

[pgkevet]

100%.

All things considered, do you think you’d have another one in a few years? If you’d asked me 2 years ago I’d have said yes without question.

Now the only thing holding me to the (car) brand is the supercharger network.

Ditto.
Even more so i some rivals got off their collective butts and brought out an EV/Hydrogen hybrid with 50mile Battery range and a network of H2 stations. I accept the power losses electricty->H2->sparks but it'd save carting a ton of battery about and refuel in minutes and top up at home.

 

[phil4]

I view this like PCs. Give it 5 years and things will have moved on. Before a car was a depreciating asset. Now it does that and also lags behind in feature and performance.

 

[Beady3647]

I'm hopeful that the impending development of genuine competition will result in Tesla raising the bar again. They have far more experience than their competition which might help them with enhancing their product. I think we all agree that their product quality and customer service are in need of vast improvement. The China and Germany manufacturing facilities should be a great help with quality. CS is something that needs to be addressed in depth.

Personally I would probably go again with Tesla - possibly out of brand loyalty - in the belief that they are able to stay ahead of the competition at least in the short to medium term.

 

[CMc1]

Energy company.

FSD team aren’t the web developer team.

Same as; the team that make the seats, don’t make the batteries.

Paint shop team don’t do the QA. (Too soon?)

 

[EVMeister]

Paint shop team don’t do the QA. (Too soon?)

Good one.

 

[Brando]

From someone who has bought dozens of cars, drives 25-30,000 miles per year (for business) backyard mechanic (does mods & repairs and builds electric bikes and model 3 screen mounts and some steering wheels) which is to say he talks from experience and not just opinions.
Well worth you time to watch.

Tesla build quality and reliability.
My thoughts after 90,000 miles of Model 3 ownership