Tesla BEV Competition Developments

[Doggydogworld]

The Audi e-tron seems to take some lead in Europe:

Why is the Audi E-Tron so popular in Norway? - Quora
Audi e-tron Is The New King Of Norway
​

Model 3 is far and away the leader in Europe, but Audi does sell a lot of e-Trons in Norway. As we all know, Norway is a unique market. It's a wealthy country and punitive ICE taxes mean premium BEV cost is similar to a mid-range ICE. That's why Tesla sold so many S/X and later Model 3s back in the day. Things I keep hearing about Norway more recently are:

1. Norwegians strongly prefer SUVs and are waiting for Model Y
2. Tesla's reputation for poor service really hurts them
3. Teslas have become 'too common'
4. Audi is pricing aggressively

The last one makes some sense as VW Group must sell a lot of EVs to meet the new 95 g/km regulation. With ID.3 still on the sidelines they need volume from e-Tron, and Norway is by far the easiest market to build that volume.

I don't read too much into Norway, but Tesla really needs to fix their service problems in Europe. That market is becoming much too competitive to treat customers the way they do.

 

[mikevbf]

Right now the best competition to M3 and MS seems to be from Xpeng's P7 which actually looks pretty good in terms of design, range, charging network buildout, and price. Yes, they are shamelessly copying Tesla, but that makes more sense than ignoring Tesla! As for stealing autopilot secrets years ago, I do not know all the details, but based on how much better the P7 parks itself than a Tesla, maybe it's time for Tesla to steal back. Right now the company has negative margins on sales, but those are improving as they ramp up manufacturing to absorb the cost of creating their own factories and supercharger network. So far this seems the best competition i have seen but still early stages.They will probably IPO this month. Here are a few videos:
Bjorn Tests First-Ever Xpeng P7 Performance To Reach Europe
Fully Charged Interviews Xpeng: Is P7 The Chinese Tesla Model 3 Rival?

 

[RobStark]

Independent test suggests 517-mile EPA range for Lucid Air electric car

Electrek and InsideEVs is reporting Lucid Air getting 517 miles of EPA range with a 900v battery pack just shy of the original envisioned 130 kWh pack from 2-3 years ago. Like a ~128 kWh.

Greencarreports is saying 110 kWh. IF they get 517 EPA miles from 110 kWh pack that is impressive. 2170 LG Chem cells too.

 

[Doggydogworld]

Independent test suggests 517-mile EPA range for Lucid Air electric car

Electrek and InsideEVs is reporting Lucid Air getting 517 miles of EPA range with a 900v battery pack just shy of the original envisioned 130 kWh pack from 2-3 years ago. Like a ~128 kWh.

Greencarreports is saying 110 kWh. IF they get 517 EPA miles from 110 kWh pack that is impressive. 2170 LG Chem cells too.

Car and Driver did a ride-along. The Lucid prototype went 458 miles, Model S 358 and Taycan 232. Rawlinson said: "In fact, we started off with a 130-kilowatt-hour pack . . . we announced that back in 2016. It's not that size. We've gone down quite a lot." So it's not 128, though 110 is probably too low. I'd guess 115-120. I wish them well, but I don't know if there's much appetite for non-Tesla premium BEVs in the US. And Europe/Asia don't care about 500 miles.

 

[JRP3]

that number—not at all confirmed by the EPA, and with a few asterisks and footnotes—stands at an estimated 517 miles, as measured by FEV North America, in Auburn Hills, Michigan, under a test commissioned by Lucid.

The motor, which can spin up to 19,500 rpm, incorporates “a breakthrough on the electromagnetism side,” according to Rawlinson

Model 3 motor is what, 97% efficient? Not much room for improvement there.

 

[JRP3]

Further, it’s the only company that’s using cooling for the core of its motors: ”which no one else has got—not even the leader in the industry—and we’ve patented it.”

Um, hollow liquid cooled rotor shaft on the original Model S induction motor?

 

[RobStark]

I wish them well, but I don't know if there's much appetite for non-Tesla premium BEVs in the US. And Europe/Asia don't care about 500 miles.

We will know for a fact in the not too distant future.

Instead of trading hypothesis.

 

[alloverx]

If Cadillac or Lucid or anyone else want a chance to beat Tesla, you have to out-perform Tesla in some manner.
Range is one option.
Performance will get the clicks and headlines as Porsche have proved. Porsche also has a great Brand so they have a chance.

 

[Saghost]

Independent test suggests 517-mile EPA range for Lucid Air electric car

Electrek and InsideEVs is reporting Lucid Air getting 517 miles of EPA range with a 900v battery pack just shy of the original envisioned 130 kWh pack from 2-3 years ago. Like a ~128 kWh.

Greencarreports is saying 110 kWh. IF they get 517 EPA miles from 110 kWh pack that is impressive. 2170 LG Chem cells too.

Makes me wonder what surprises Tesla had planned for battery day, and what else they had scheduled for the next year that they can get out in the next six months instead.

I doubt Tesla will ignore this challenge. It’ll be an interesting time to be a car buyer, for sure.

 

[renim]

re european vs american range

european (diesel) ford mondeo range 1176km
petrol style mondeo range 756km

same car, engine reflect tastes, stats are Australian

Some Europeans want 600mile real world range to match their diesel cars, but will they pay for it?

 

[guidooo]

Some Europeans want 600mile real world range to match their diesel cars, but will they pay for it?

Some people want everything. Think the willingness to pay is also dependent on the reason for wanting a higher range. Obviously the filling pattern of a fuel tank is different then the charging pattern of a battery. Both in location, time needed and the amount of partial filling compared to a fill from empty to full.

Maybe some think it is just convenient to go to a gas station once a week. And maybe they find out doing a nightly recharge is sufficient for most needs on a smaller range vehicle.

same car, engine reflect tastes

And the fiscal stuff combined with the amount of kilometers driven on a yearly basis. Diesel fuel is cheaper over here, but if i'm not mistaken road tax for diesel cars is higher.

 

[SmartElectric]

Some Europeans want 600mile real world range to match their diesel cars, but will they pay for it?

I am looking to buy the tri-motor Cybertruck for the 500 mile range.

Battery capacity enables many use cases like large trailer towing, road trips, and one not talked about often : waiting until the next windy evening to charge my car to use as much renewable electricity on the grid ... plus 240V outlet in the truck bed for tools, the list goes on.

Vs a car with 500 mile range, yeah, my current car has 55 mile range and I rarely use it ... ;-)

 

[RobStark]

As I was watching the Lyriq debut I thought to myself "That is a $75k car."

After watching it I saw a bunch of websites say it would start at $75k.

I thought "damn I am good."

$59.9k MSRP for the Lyriq would be an excellent price.

If Elon doesn't go crazy and offer the base Model X for $59.8k in two years.

 

[alloverx]

Cadillac's price is smart, same as the Corvette price. Got to make an impact in the online stories.
Now whether any cars get sold at the price remains to be seen.
Don't forget the Caddy is still 2 years away.

 

[Ipe]

Model 3 is far and away the leader in Europe, but Audi does sell a lot of e-Trons in Norway. As we all know, Norway is a unique market. It's a wealthy country and punitive ICE taxes mean premium BEV cost is similar to a mid-range ICE. That's why Tesla sold so many S/X and later Model 3s back in the day. Things I keep hearing about Norway more recently are:

1. Norwegians strongly prefer SUVs and are waiting for Model Y
2. Tesla's reputation for poor service really hurts them
3. Teslas have become 'too common'
4. Audi is pricing aggressively

The last one makes some sense as VW Group must sell a lot of EVs to meet the new 95 g/km regulation. With ID.3 still on the sidelines they need volume from e-Tron, and Norway is by far the easiest market to build that volume.

I don't read too much into Norway, but Tesla really needs to fix their service problems in Europe. That market is becoming much too competitive to treat customers the way they do.

We also need Model 3 features like a CCS chargeport (instead of the silly adapter) and 250kW charging speed. And an interior refresh. And a 120kWh battery for the X.

All of this coming soon, I hope.

 

[WarpedOne]

Version 2020.28.6

Supercharger Improvements
Model S
Model X
100kW battery produced after 6/2020
250kw Supercharging
Available only in China

Your car is now able to charge at V3 Superchargers at up to 250kW peak rates. As usual, when you navigate to a Supercharger, your car will condition its battery during the drive, so it can charge faster.

 

[RobStark]

Lucid CEO confirms SUV, considers pickup, says “absolutely not” to contract manufacturing

Lucid might reveal an SUV at the Air sedan launch.

 

[adiggs]

Lucid CEO confirms SUV, considers pickup, says “absolutely not” to contract manufacturing

Lucid might reveal an SUV at the Air sedan launch.

I can think of worse blueprints than Tesla's in pursuing an EV strategy. Like say everybody else, with maybe the exception of Nissan (I automatically discount anything with a gas engine, or BEV built in compliance numbers).

 

[RobStark]

Lucid Motors has ambitious plans to defy skeptics and take on Tesla

The $700 million facility, including $300 million for the first phase of production, is expected to have an initial vehicle production capacity of 34,000 units, which Rawlinson believes will grow to a maximum capacity of 400,000 units toward the end of the decade.

Rawlinson, speaking opportunistically, expressed aspirations for the company to build 1 million vehicles a year by 2027, which would mean the addition of at least one additional manufacturing facility and several new products.

I would not wager on a 2nd facility with a 600k unit capacity. But a 300k unit factory in the EU plus another 300k unit plant in China.

 

[mikevbf]

I wish other companies like Lucid would copy Musk/Tesla's approach and have the balls to put out a long term master plan. That said I do like Lucid's first step with a super high end luxury vehicle which will grow well with autonomous driving. i do believe there will be a market for this.