Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla BEV Competition Developments

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Watch out Tesla!
Hyundai begins building electric vehicle hub in Singapore
Speaking at the groundbreaking ceremony, Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said the facility may produce up to 30,000 electric vehicles (EVs) annually by 2025 and represents an investment of S$400 million ($295 million).

30,000 a year is stiff competition for Tesla (2013). Not so much for Tesla 2020 or 2022.

By 2022 I think it is quite possible the Model S will transition to large front and rear body casts with battery in chassis of course starting with plaid, but eventually moving to all MS. With this the price of the MS will go down and driving dynamics up. The big question is will the Lucid finally push Tesla to do a serious interior refresh or will they instead focus their resources on other new models like cyber truck. Without a significant interior refresh, the Lucid has a niche to grow into.

The only economically feasible redesign of the Model S is to share as much with the Model 3/Y as possible. They may be able to make a wider car by putting a plug in the casting to make it wider, and then make a stretched body adding some capacity to the battery.

The halo cars for most manufacturers have similarities with the mass market cars because a lot of the core components are the same. Back when GM had their lineup of full sized cars ranging from the Chevy Caprice to the Cadillac Fleetwood, they were all built on the same basic chassis and then trim was added to make them look different. The higher end cars also had an extended chassis with a few more inches legroom in the back seat.

Car makers have been moving towards universal platforms even more aggressively in recent years. It reduces R&D.

When Tesla has the new platform underpinnings perfected, they may then roll them out to the entire car line up. But the S/X will be the last to get the new design. Elon has said that their ultimate goal was to revolutionize transportation. He's gunning for VW and Toyota. If he can take some sales from Porsche and BMW along the way, that's fine, but that's not their primary focus.

Tesla doesn't need halo cars because everything they do gets tons of media attention. Other car makers don't have that luxury. A new version of the VW Golf or Toyota Camry gets some press that basically says "it's there if you want it" while tons of ink gets spilled on stories about the new Porsche or other sports car.

I don't really follow the media about cars that much, but I have noticed far more coverage of the new Corvette than any other GM car. Compare that to how much coverage the Model 3 got when it came out. It was probably the most written about mid-sized family sedan in the history of the car industry.
 
  • Like
Reactions: navguy12
I think it is pretty remarkable how fast Tesla is moving. compared to a 2016 S 85, the current Model S is faster, nicer and over $10,000 cheaper.

Given Tesla's overall mission to shift the world to EVs I believe Toyota / Chevy / Ford is the target. High volume, inexpensive to manufacture and "nice" but not "luxury." Of course with the added world leading performance and remarkable software systems that allow me to watch Netflix, remotely control the climate, drive itself (on the freeway at least).

Its quite a vision to watch unfold and this latest move shows me that the pace is being applied across ALL of their cars
 
The only economically feasible redesign of the Model S is to share as much with the Model 3/Y as possible.

My conjecture of a Model S structural battery pack with front and rear castings in 2022 is based on:
1) The Plaid Model S coming out at the end of 2021,
2) Elon tweeting that the plaid Model S will get the structural battery pack,
3) I believe it will be difficult to distribute load of the structural battery pack without the front and rear castings,
4) Once Tesla has gone to the trouble and expense to doing this for the Plaid Model S, they would extend this to all Model S because it is a cheaper and better manufacturing process once the initial capitol of upgrading the manufacturing is absorbed by selling a lot of vehicles using the new process.
 
  • Like
Reactions: petit_bateau
There is twitter post with an extensive comparison between the ID4 and the Model Y. Too big to screen grab, but here is the link:
https://twitter.com/ceo_plus_ch/status/1317798239492575233
Here's the table. A few dubious entries:
EknCeGnW0AAfVkB
 
Last edited:
The GM announcement of the Hummer rollout schedule is essentially their announcing their path to Chapter 11. A 250 mile range $80,000 truck in 2024 is almost a joke today. In 2024 given what Rivian and Tesla are doing and the trajectory they are on, this alleged Hummer is DOA. There is a better chance that GM will be crushing the few Hummers produced in 2024 than actually producing the Hummer EV2. Mark this post, and get back to me in the Spring of 2024.

And no, the Biden administration is not going to be offering $7,500 EV Federal tax credits for a $112,500 product, GM or otherwise. European countries have a ceiling on the price of EVs that receive taxpayer money, and the U.S. will no doubt follow in their footsteps. The market for EVs is large enough now that carpet bombing money for $112,500 vehicles is no longer necessary to spur innovation. And yes, the Chapter 11 will actually happen this time. No one is going to bail out a company that failed twice in recent history. The few employees worth keeping around will find employment at likely the same factories, purchased for pennies on the dollar, wearing a nice crisp Tesla uniform.

GM is done.

RT
 
The GM announcement of the Hummer rollout schedule is essentially their announcing their path to Chapter 11. A 250 mile range $80,000 truck in 2024 is almost a joke today

At 43:47 in this video, Tom from Inside EV's has a good analysis of the price point.
Basically, the gas hummer was a premium priced super truck, so GM followed that pattern with the EV version.
There is a market for status vehicles, otherwise Tesla wouldn't have announced the roadster V2 with crazy rocket tech on it right ?!:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doggydogworld
At 43:47 in this video, Tom from Inside EV's has a good analysis of the price point.
Basically, the gas hummer was a premium priced super truck, so GM followed that pattern with the EV version.
There is a market for status vehicles, otherwise Tesla wouldn't have announced the roadster V2 with crazy rocket tech on it right ?!:

Sure, that is a good comparison. Now, how many "roadster V2 with crazy rocket tech" will Tesla sell ?
Maybe a few thousand, IMHO.
Definitely not in volumes that matter in terms of total car market.
If that is GM's goal with this Hummer EV, then it does not matter, and does not help the transition to sustainable transportation. Sure, sell some halo cars to some celebrities, but it is not going to be a work-horse for your average construction guy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: navguy12
If that is GM's goal with this Hummer EV, then it does not matter, and does not help the transition to sustainable transportation. Sure, sell some halo cars to some celebrities, but it is not going to be a work-horse for your average construction guy.

Anyone who watched the video of the hummer knows this isn't "grampa's work truck".

The Cybertruck has challenges to be practical as well, but expect the 100x higher production by Tesla vs GM, so yeah, the hummer will be a halo vehicle. Heck, the corvette team worked on the hummer, so it was a marketing oriented push for sure.
 
GM is building a 30 GWh Gigafactory in Ohio in a JV with LG Chem. with land already purchased for possible expansion. They are not doing that for ~10k Hummer EVs per year.

There will also be GMC and Chevy trucks based of this platform. At much lower prices.

GMs "Factory Zero" will have a capacity to manufacture 270k EVs per year. That is mostly trucks but also the robotaxi Cruise vehicles as well.

GM will be making EV sedans/crossovers in Spring Hill Tennessee but this factory will also make ICEv.
 
GM is building a 30 GWh Gigafactory in Ohio in a JV with LG Chem. with land already purchased for possible expansion. They are not doing that for ~10k Hummer EVs per year.

GMs "Factory Zero" will have a capacity to manufacture 270k EVs per year.

GM will be making EV sedans/crossovers in Spring Hill Tennessee but this factory will also make ICEv.

It all sounds fine without any context. But if we're talking crossovers, SUVs, and pickups for more meaningful sales than the Bolt, their average battery size is going to be higher than Tesla due to lower efficiency. 100 kWh? So 30 GWh covers about 300,000 vehicles? That lines up reasonably well with 270k/year from Hamtramck and some more Lyriqs and whatever from Tennessee.

And GM sold 7.7M vehicles last year?

So congrats, let's throw GM a big party, if all goes totally as planned (not, of course, a given), they're planning to shift NEARLY FOUR PERCENT of production to EVs in the next few years?!? Boy, they've really caught this electric wave.
 
It all sounds fine without any context. But if we're talking crossovers, SUVs, and pickups for more meaningful sales than the Bolt, their average battery size is going to be higher than Tesla due to lower efficiency. 100 kWh? So 30 GWh covers about 300,000 vehicles? That lines up reasonably well with 270k/year from Hamtramck and some more Lyriqs and whatever from Tennessee.

And GM sold 7.7M vehicles last year?

So congrats, let's throw GM a big party, if all goes totally as planned (not, of course, a given), they're planning to shift NEARLY FOUR PERCENT of production to EVs in the next few years?!? Boy, they've really caught this electric wave.

At least it's a start. Hopefully they get that into production. And we know from following Tesla that scaling up to that first million / year isn't easy.

At least 300k vehicles/year has a reasonable chance of being more than compliance numbers, and that's my own threshold for serious and not serious.

Though in GM's case, that might only be compliance numbers due to the carbon restrictions in Europe. European thresholds look to me like they will force companies to EVs, force companies out of the European market, or leave companies in a position of paying out a big % of profits as fines.
 
Though in GM's case, that might only be compliance numbers due to the carbon restrictions in Europe. European thresholds look to me like they will force companies to EVs, force companies out of the European market, or leave companies in a position of paying out a big % of profits as fines.
GM exited Europe a year or two ago. F is still active there, and I believe had to pool with VW/SAIC. I think that was plan B, originally they hoped to deliver enough Mach Es to make it on their own.

A lot of what F, GM, VW, etc. are doing in the US is contingency planning in case Biden wins and the Dems take the Senate. Nobody wants to be the slowest runner if a Grizzly shows up. But if Trump pulls another upset or something a lot of these plans will get pushed back.

I still don't see evidence EVs can expand out of their niche in the absence of strong government intervention. And the strongest intervention to date, the EU's 95g rules, produced a competitive dynamic that is unfavorable to Tesla. Without Sergio Marchionne's ~10k/car gift they'd really be facing an uphill battle there.