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Tesla BEV Competition Developments
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Soros invested in Rivian
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www.reuters.com
Billionaire Soros buys stake in EV startup Rivian
Billionaire investor George Soros bought nearly 20 million shares of electric truck startup Rivian Automotive Inc in the quarter ended Dec. 31, securities filings showed Friday.
www.reuters.com
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Some Hummer specs:
(Note, Ah * voltage can be an inaccurate way to estimate pack size since voltage varies with SOC)
EPA Documents Reveal More Specs on the 2022 GMC Hummer EV Pickup
(Note, Ah * voltage can be an inaccurate way to estimate pack size since voltage varies with SOC)
EPA Documents Reveal More Specs on the 2022 GMC Hummer EV Pickup
adiggs
Well-Known Member
Good grief - 47mpge, 9,000 lb curb weight. >200kwh battery pack for 330 miles of range (EPA estimated - I expect that to be lower in practice).
My immediate thought is that this is the brute force method of engineering compared to what I've grown accustomed to from Tesla. My Model X is around 250 miles range on the 90 kwh pack and 89 mpge. The idea of an EV with THAT much lower mpge is something I haven't previously contemplated.
And yet, all that being said, I'm still happy to see this beast being built (or at least in serious danger of being built). For the simple reason that variety is the spice of life, and a market made up ONLY of Model S/3/X/Y isn't enough variety. Seeing more and more options is a good thing. Even if I don't expect very many of this particular variety to make it into actual garages.
On the upside, cold weather and towing will probably have less of an impact on range.
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
Yeah electricity is cheap, but it's not *that* cheap. At 47 MPGe plus the high initial purchase price there's no way the electric Hummer will be financially appealing. So what's the plan then? Appeal to the Hummer demographic's appreciation for our planet?
adiggs
Well-Known Member
The market becomes increasingly price insensitive as you work your way up the curve. Put another way - if you can afford it and you want it, then the financial appeal is much less likely to matter for this car and price point, than it does for other vehicles at lower price points.
The people that want it and can afford it, won't care.
I'm not enamored by those stats either, but I would rather somebody that wants a Hummer to be driving that, than a diesel burning variant. This by the way, on both sides, is something we heard lots of in the early roll out of the Model S. It's for rich people that don't care about the financial appeal. Rich people won't care whether the cost to operate is low or high (though it did prove to be the case it was enough cheaper to operate that people stretched to get into the car).
And that whether it was a good thing or not, at least some of the people that wanted to drive $100k+ sedans would be driving $100k+ electric sedans.
This is also, in my opinion, an important component of Elon's magic and approach to the EV industry. Instead of investing energy into telling people what they should want, he met them where they were at with something that would work economically. That's where the Secret Master Plan arose - start at the high end so you could make something profitable, and use the scale and learnings from that to work down the market.
Here we have another example of meeting people where they are at, rather than telling them where they should be. From that point of view - I like it.
And maybe this Hummer will also experience some of that stretch dynamic, where people that couldn't quite afford the diesel variant, will be able to make the financial justification by the higher energy efficiency. And as bad as 47 mpge looks to long time EV drivers, that must look like magic to Hummer owners.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I had to think about this one for a bit, I guess you're saying the poor aerodynamics and excessive weight of the vehicle mean adding a trailer would have a relatively smaller proportional impact than on a more efficient vehicle but I'm not sure of your reasoning for cold weather performance. I'd think the poor aerodynamics would take a greater proportional hit in the cold, (more dense air).
Hummer's appeal hadn't ever been about finances. I don't like its looks, but others like how "masculine" it is. *shrug*
slower driving speeds should off-set the loss from increased air density.
adiggs
Well-Known Member
Dare I think or even say it - GM taking a page from Elon's strategy book?
Make what people want - not what we think they should want.
You're correct that air density increase in cold will increase aero drag just like with all other cars. My thought was that the baseline energy usage is so high due to mass, rolling resistence, drive unit inefficiency, that the additional drag and cabin heat would be a smaller fraction of the power used. If it were purely due to aero, then range loss would line up with other cars.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Why would people drive more slowly in the cold? Unless you're talking about poor road conditions, which would also negatively impact efficiency.
Isn't Elon's (and Steve Job's) strategy more of a "make what people didn't realize they wanted"?
GM's definitely sticking to the "our customers told us they wanted this ...". It's just a shame that those customers want "a trucky looking truck that can do tough truck stuff" *Tim Allen grunts*.
I guess that's a thing only in my area then. Weather cold enough to significantly increase air density generally comes with poor road conditions, so they drive slower.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Capability I'd like Tesla to have, seems as if more and more EV's will offer this.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
RobStark
Well-Known Member
2012 Model S was definitely appeal to the aesthetics and demands of current customers.
Cybertruck doesn't offer less capability than customers expect, it offers more than many customers expect. Elon is disregarding current customers aesthetics and user interface demands.
2012 Model S looked like a Jaguar, Maserati ,or Aston Martin sedan coupe but with a fake grill instead of real one. Leather seats, leather steering wheel, wood trim, and mostly conventional interior. later agreed to add center console and door pockets. The 17" touchscreen in of itself was novel with some controls normally in physical switchgear poured into the touchscreen. But overall it appealed to current customer demands.
I don't think we have the infrastructure to take the Hummer hardcore offroading/overlanding. You can go off-roading close to your house. These will be mostly about going to da Club in style.
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