Tesla BEV Competition Developments

[Doggydogworld]

If you’re a Rivian investor…..be prepared to be diluted in a big way over the next year. Rivian’s losses are going to be astronomical until they get through all those preorders. So about 1.5-2 years of huge losses

Let's say they have 20k fully configured pre-orders that eventually take delivery at an average $12k "loss"*. That's $0.24 billion. Rivian has ~18b in the bank. This shows why the decision was so remarkably dumb in the first place.

*It's actually a reduced gross margin vs. a loss, but you get the point.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Let's say they have 20k fully configured pre-orders that eventually take delivery at an average $12k "loss"*. That's $0.24 billion. Rivian has ~18b in the bank. This shows why the decision was so remarkably dumb in the first place.

*It's actually a reduced gross margin vs. a loss, but you get the point.

Pretty sure they claimed their reservation count was 70k, so they have to honor that. So more like 840 million. 840 million added on to the losses they're already having. We'll see next week exactly what position they're in when they report earnings.

 

[heltok]

Imo all companies should stop putting out final prices of their future vehicles given the uncertain inflation and supply chain challenges. Give an indication and let people reserve a spot if they want to, but if needed adjust prices up. Imo the first cybertrucks should be selling for $200k to rich people, then as they ramp they can lower the prices as they scale with an intention of eventually getting it down to ~$39k inflation adjusted.

 

[alloverx]

Or you post prices and clearly indicate if inflation (per the Federal standard) will also apply/
Alternatively If delivered within 1 year you get this price otherwise inflation will be added.

 

[heltok]

Imo better that Tesla keeps the profit than letting scalpers resell their cybertrucks for 100k profit. Because that’s how much people will be willing to pay to get a cybertruck on day1.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Sony, Honda team up to develop and sell electric vehicles

Japan's Sony Corp and Honda Motor Co Ltd said on Friday they would pair up to develop and sell battery-powered electric vehicles, and said they were open to bringing in other partners.

www.reuters.com

 

[willow_hiller]

Not too surprising:

Rivian is sued for allegedly misleading investors about electric vehicle prices

Rivian Automotive Inc has been sued by a shareholder who claimed the startup failed to tell investors it had underpriced its electric vehicles, leading to unpopular price hikes that it swiftly rolled back.

www.reuters.com

 

[Discoducky]

2025 Volkswagen ID.Buzz: What We Know So Far

The 2025 Volkswagen ID.Buzz represents the modern revival of the brand's beloved Microbus and will be one of the first electric vans on the market.

www.caranddriver.com

US sales start sometime in 2024...not sure what variant will go on sale, be delivered first.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

I'm disappointed to read that the ID.Buzz will be based on an *enlarged* version of their cargo truck chassis, will offer AWD, and has a stupid name.

It looks so small in the photos that I really thought they were going to make it close to Microbus size, or at least no bigger than a Vanagon. Cheap and lacking in range and features it'd be an absolutely awesome little getaround. It's a beautiful design and will be a huge hit if they can manage to position it far below the Model Y in every metric. Imagine how great this body would be on a Nissan Leaf chassis for example! For about the same price, and with 20% less range - that would sell like hotcakes!

 

[RobStark]

ID.Buzz is on largest version of the MEB platform. Like all IDs are on the MEB.

It has a whimsical name. Like the vehicle itself. As long it doesn't have too big a premium over ID.4 it will sell like hotcakes.

 

[DanCar]

ID.Buzz is on largest version of the MEB platform. Like all IDs are on the MEB.

... sell like hotcakes.

Interesting they plan to sell 3 different versions eventually. 300 mile range, more than 200 mile range (230?), and cheapest version will be less than 200 (160?) mile range. Cheaper versions won't be available initially. Initial version is going to cost $50K according to estimates on video reviews I've seen on youtube.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Rivian has finally announced the long-awaited major refresh of their aging R1T Pickup.
The new model will be based on 800V architecture with an entirely new battery, powertrain and power electronics - a full clean-sheet redesign of the entire powertrain and a major departure from the 400V system the company had always used in their older vehicles. They're also adding bidirectional charging and heat pumps of course, as well as dual motor and LFP variants to round out the new lineup.

Rivian Announces New Tech Under Development

Rivian announced that it continues "significant investments" in next-generation vehicle platforms and in-vehicle technologies.

insideevs.com

 

[RobStark]

Rivian has finally announced the long-awaited major refresh of their aging R1T Pickup.
The new model will be based on 800V architecture with an entirely new battery, powertrain and power electronics - a full clean-sheet redesign of the entire powertrain and a major departure from the 400V system the company had always used in their older vehicles. They're also adding bidirectional charging and heat pumps of course, as well as dual motor and LFP variants to round out the new lineup.

Rivian Announces New Tech Under Development

Rivian announced that it continues "significant investments" in next-generation vehicle platforms and in-vehicle technologies.

insideevs.com

Rivian is defending its stock price.

That is what all the talk about future tech, projects and product is about.

I don't think Wall Steet is happy about Rivian selling their first 70k vehicles at ~$1B under cost.

 

[Zebelkhan]

A magazine in Norway has been running a yearly real world winter range test. The Model 3 was this year's winner, and the Model Y was one of the closest to the rated WLTP range

Test av rekkevidde for elbiler - vinter 2022 | NAF

Tesla Model 3 kjørte 521 kilometer i årets vintertest. Mercedes-Benz EQS 580 4Matic gikk 513 kilometer. Men ingen av de 31 bilene klarte den oppgitte WLTP-rekkevidden.

nye.naf.no

​

Here are the range numbers:

Model (temp. ranged from 0° to -10°)	WLTP number	STOP	Deviation
Tesla Model 3 LR Dual Engine	614 km/14.7 kWh	521 km	-15,15 %
Mercedes-Benz EQS 580 4matic	645 km/18.3 kWh	513 km	-20,47 %
BMW iX xDrive50	591 km/21.4 kWh	503 km	-14,89 %
Tesla Model Y LR Dual Engine	507 km/16.9 kWh	451 km	-11,05 %
Volkswagen ID.3 PRO S	539 km/16.3 kWh	435 km	-19,29 %
Kia EV6 2WD	528 km/16.5 kWh	429 km	-18,75 %
Kia EV6 4WD	484 km/18.0 kWh	428 km	-11,57 %
NIO ES8 LR 7 seats	500 km/21.5 kWh	425 km	-15,00 %
Volkswagen ID.4 Pro	485 km/18.4 kWh	414 km	-14,64 %
Hyundai Ioniq 5 2WD	481 km/16.8 kWh	408 km	-15,18 %
BMW i4 M50	497 km/19.0 kWh	406 km	-18,31 %
Skoda Enyaq iV80X	477 km/18.2 kWh	403 km	-15,51 %
Porsche Taycan 4 Cross Turismo	456 km/22.4 kWh	402 km	-11,84 %
Polestar 2 LR Single engine	517 km/18.6 kWh	400 km	-22,63 %
Audi e-tron GT	463 km/21.1 kWh	392 km	-15,33 %
Xpeng P7	470 km/19.4 kWh	383 km	-18,51 %
Audi e-tron Q4 40	485 km/18.6 kWh	380 km	-21,65 %
Hyundai Ioniq 5 4WD (19-inch)	460 km/17.7 kWh	369 km	-19,78 %
Hyundai Ioniq 5 LR 4WD (20-inch)	430 km/17.7 kWh	x	x
BYD Seaweed	400 km/21.6 kWh	356 km	-11,00 %
Volkswagen ID.4 GTX	475 km/18.6 kWh	353 km	-25,68 %
Audi e-tron Q4 50 quattro	459 km/19.1 kWh	349 km	-23,97 %
Skoda Enyaq iV80	509 km/17.7 kWh	347 km	-31,83 %
Tesla Model 3 SR	448 km/14.0 kWh	346 km	-22,87 %
Polestar 2 LR Dual engine	476 km/20.2 kWh	340 km	-28,57 %
Polestar 2 LR Dual motor (m luggage)	470 km/19.5 kWh	x	x
Cupra Born	395 km/15.4 kWh	339 km	-14,18 %
Volvo C40 Recharge	437 km/21.1 kWh	333 km	-23,80 %
Mercedes-Benz EQA 250	401 km/17.7 kWh	331 km	-17,46 %
BMW iX xDrive40	402 km/20.7 kWh	316 km	-21,39 %
Mercedes-Benz EQB 350 4matic	407 km/18.1 kWh	315 km	-22,60 %
Opel Mokka-e	338 km/16.2 kWh	263 km	-22,19 %
Peugeot e-2008	320 km/15.6 kWh	228 km	-28,75 %

Do you have the link to their summer tests?

 

[JRP3]

Sandy very enthusiastic about his Rivian

 

[RobStark]

Lotus electric SUV/CUV made in China that will sell in the same price band as Model X.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

There's no way that Lotus or any other British automaker will be able to transition to EV's. They just don't have the reserves and momentum to compete.

... is what I couldn't stop thinking as I watched that Lotus video.

... until they mentioned that Lotus isn't a British automaker. Who knew? Obviously not me.


Anyway, I got a chuckle when the interviewer noted that it's not quite as ugly as a Lamborghini (which I knew was not Italian).

 

[RobStark]

There's no way that Lotus or any other British automaker will be able to transition to EV's. They just don't have the reserves and momentum to compete.

... is what I couldn't stop thinking as I watched that Lotus video.

... until they mentioned that Lotus isn't a British automaker. Who knew? Obviously not me.

Jaguar Land Rover is owned by Tata Motors

Bentley is owned by VW Group

Rolls Royce is owned by BMW

Mini is owned by BMW

Vauxhall is owned by Stellantis

MG Rover is owned by SAIC

Lotus and London Electric Vehicle Co are owned by Geely

So your prediction is McLaren and Morgan will not be able to transition to electric?

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Haha! Yeah, when you put it that way, I'm pretty sure I can stand by my prediction.

I just didn't know Lotus was Chinese, so I was watching that video thinking what the hell? There's no way Lotus could make an EV, why am I wasting my time on this stupid Urus-copy concept car thing? And then it suddenly got real.

 

[RobStark]

Haha! Yeah, when you put it that way, I'm pretty sure I can stand by my prediction.

I just didn't know Lotus was Chinese, so I was watching that video thinking what the hell? There's no way Lotus could make an EV, why am I wasting my time on this stupid Urus-copy concept car thing? And then it suddenly got real.

Forgot about another "British Automaker" Aston Martin.

They buy powertrains, electrical subsystems, and a bunch of minor bits and bobs from Mercedes.

So they are really a coachbuilder. Another British billionaire has bought Aston recently and will try to make it a go. My guess is eventually Mercedes buys them for pence and on the pound.