Tesla coercing software updates!?!

[swegman]

good news. Tesla lied and 2019.16.x.x software would work mostly fine after they stop vpn service. this is because the real tideover to "hermes" happened in 2019.8.x, so the only problem you will experience is if they stop openvpn service, your car will keep tryign to reconnect wich would increase the logging and add some cpu load, but at least the functionality should be fine I believe.

You can always turn to your friendly rooting community to help you stop vpn service from draining whateevr resources once the server side dsappears.

Not knowing the difference between vpn service and “hermes”, what are you saying will occur if one fails to update to at least 2019.40.2.3? Are you saying support for web sockets is already built into 2019.16.x.x and later, and everything will continue to operate as it does today?

 

[verygreen]

Not knowing the difference between vpn service and “hermes”, what are you saying will occur if one fails to update to at least 2019.40.2.3? Are you saying support for web sockets is already built into 2019.16.x.x and later, and everything will continue to operate as it does today?

support for websockets was added in 18.50.x releases for MCU1 cars but it was dormant until 19.8.x releases where services were switched to use these websockets (hermes) api from vpn so vpn mostly served little to no purpose after that.

But vpn service would try to reestablish connection to Tesla, that's about the only downside on those older releases I imagine come the day when Tesla turns of their server side VPN servers

 

[swegman]

But vpn service would try to reestablish connection to Tesla, that's about the only downside on those older releases I imagine come the day when Tesla turns of their server side VPN servers

And the effect of this will be what? I don’t want to lose access to the mobile app, audio streaming, navigation (including traffic feature), etc but am nervous about updating and losing more range or slowing down the charging speed more than the car has already been affected.

I am traveling very much and the reduced range and reduced charging speed I currently am experiencing has made the trios more difficult. Twenty minute charge stops are now taking 1 hour or more. The reduced range means I need to stop at more charging locations. Any future reductions would make long distance traveling even more problematic.

Plus I’ve read that a few people got battery problem messages after updating. Since my travels are taking me hundreds of miles from a nearest service center, the possibility of experiencing a battery error message at this time due to a firmware update scares me.

 

[verygreen]

And the effect of this will be what? I

just a bit of extra cpu drain and logging. the phone app and in car stuff should just keep working.

since I imagine you have a staged update already - you can install it at any time should you feel you finally must. Don't need vpn for it.

 

[yobigd20]

yea I got this notice on feb 11th. I will not be updating as I'm still on 2019.16.2 and not voltage capped yet with 205k miles and about 65% of that supercharged...

If you got a 85 or 90 battery, I believe some capacity restrictions have been added. Can't remember if it's that exact version. Probably to address some issues with these packs not being as safe as they should be with full charge (they don't want to admit that...).

No reports on 100 batteries being affected afaik.

according to recent updates in the massive sudden loss of range thread, 100kw packs are starting to get restricted now too.

For those of you who refuse to do updates, if something fails on your car and you get into an accident will you then decide to Sue Tesla despite the fix for that having been in one of the updates?

if it was the software that causes the crash and Tesla did not disclose this and knew about it and did not issue a recall, you bet your ass I'll sue them.

Ha! I'm still on 2019.32.2.2 which is FW Version 9! LOL

Last update: Sept/2019.

I'm still on 2019.16.2, which was force updated on me without my consent. surprised they havent force updated me to a newer version yet...

That is Tesla's problem. Not mine. Tesla sold me this in 2012. I paid $9X,000 for it. They should maintain legacy systems to provide me what I paid for or offer to buy my car back.

honestly I don't really care about the connected features on my 2013 P85. I don't use any of them. I don't even use the maps because they are slow AF. I just use google maps and stream music from my phone. I get that you 'paid for it', but this kind of stuff is pretty common. just look at any online video game people have paid for where the game manufacture says they are turning off all online servers. it happens to almost all games after a number of years even if they still have active players...

It does not intentionally cripple anything

oh boy you have no clue. they have crippled and removed many things and not just supercharging speeds and battery volt caps.

The update feature was a bait and switch - people who purchased it were told their cars were going to get better with every update, which was mostly true at first, but then turned around, disabling things which used to work (like browser), forcing changes making the UI much less usable, reducing max range, limiting charging speeds, etc - hence people refuse to update anymore.

don't forget the 'low suspension' mode they took away in 2013 and never gave back!! they simply updated the parameters such that the new "low" setting is the same as the original "normal" setting. we never got the low suspension mode back. so that was 1 feature we paid a lot for that they permanently stole.

 

[docdeb27]

There you go folks .why we can't have nice things. someone who stated he would ignore the update , then if there was a crash Sue Tesla if they didn't issue a recall .lol telling you to. "update this is the fix "is less onerous than dragging the car in for them to tweak it. it's the same as a recall. you would be negligent not to. Entitled, spoiled, ridiculous people who cause us not to be able to enjoy anything in America.

 

[WattTheHeck]

It's funny this thread is called "Tesla coercing software updates!?!" because when users refuse to update their cars they are effectively "corercing" Tesla to keep supporting old legacy code and infrastructure that may otherwise be depreciated and also takes away software engineer's time to work on new code and keeping the codebase in good order.

As a software engineer it seriously grinds my gears to see this thread… Software updates are there for reason. Just keep your damn cars up to date. I feel bad for the engineers that need to keep legacy code mixed in just because some people don't like a few changes here and there to their software experience.

TL;DR: Just update your damn car.

 

[Wol747]

>>As a software engineer it seriously grinds my gears.......<<

The key here is your own designation - "Software engineer".

Tesla may be from its own perspective a tech company, but its customers are buying CARS. Transportation.

Updates which enhance the TRAVEL experience are one thing, updates which degrade it quite another.

From an outsider's point of view, if Tesla concentrated more on delivering quality CAR service and less on teenagers' farts and games the company would be taken more seriously by the press.

 

[HankLloydRight]

TL;DR: Just update your damn car.

As a fellow software engineer, NO.

It's funny this thread is called "Tesla coercing software updates!?!" because when users refuse to update their cars they are effectively "corercing" Tesla to keep supporting old legacy code and infrastructure that may otherwise be depreciated and also takes away software engineer's time to work on new code and keeping the codebase in good order.

As a software engineer it seriously grinds my gears to see this thread… Software updates are there for reason. Just keep your damn cars up to date. I feel bad for the engineers that need to keep legacy code mixed in just because some people don't like a few changes here and there to their software experience.

Your position makes sense when the software updates IMPROVE the product. I should update the software with crappier and crappier versions and UI/UX just so I can make the Tesla software engineers happy? NFW. If they don't want to maintain legacy code, stop making the software and UI WORSE, and crippling the older cars range and charging speeds (and who knows what else is coming down the road).

 

[Trebek1762]

@verygreen when rooted, what's the easiest way to disable Tesla ovpn while maintaining websockets?

 

[verygreen]

@verygreen when rooted, what's the easiest way to disable Tesla ovpn while maintaining websockets?

depending on how early you plug into the bootprocess either remove /etc/init/vpn.conf or run "stop vpn"

 

[Trebek1762]

depending on how early you plug into the bootprocess either remove /etc/init/vpn.conf or run "stop vpn"

What if I'm using ovpn access to my own server? Will that kill all VPNs or just Tesla?

 

[verygreen]

What if I'm using ovpn access to my own server? Will that kill all VPNs or just Tesla?

that will kill just startup of tesla vpn, your vpn will remain unaffected since I am pretty sure you are not starting it from tesla startup scripts anyway.

 

[swegman]

Reading the following thread ( Maximum battery charge level reduced ) discloses that many owners have gotten a battery error message when the firmware on their car was updated to 2019.40.2.3, requiring replacement of the HV battery. Further, once the error message is displayed the car battery will no longer charge it will only charge to a low level, such as 30% SOC. I wonder if Tesla’s insistence on updating to this firmware version has nothing to do with the vpn server, but is actually in response to the class action lawsuit against Tesla and the government investigation of the battery issues and is Tesla’s covert attempt to retrieve the “bad” battery packs.

In any event, as I am traveling it is only prudent to avoid installing this update until such time as I am close to a service center, in the event my car displays the battery error message once the firmware is installed.

 

[Behind]

It is NOT true that Tesla could care less what version my car is on. If that were the case, they would not have forced (downloaded and then installed) 2019.16.1 on my car in the middle of the night without telling me beforehand that an update existed and asking me to schedule the installation. Instead, I got into the car one morning and discovered via a message on the screen that the car’s firmware had been updated during the night.

It's funny this thread is called "Tesla coercing software updates!?!" because when users refuse to update their cars they are effectively "corercing" Tesla to keep supporting old legacy code and infrastructure that may otherwise be depreciated and also takes away software engineer's time to work on new code and keeping the codebase in good order.

As a software engineer it seriously grinds my gears to see this thread… Software updates are there for reason. Just keep your damn cars up to date. I feel bad for the engineers that need to keep legacy code mixed in just because some people don't like a few changes here and there to their software experience.

TL;DR: Just update your damn car.

Why did they engineer the car that way then. Despite the hype, I bought the car to drive, not to sit around updating so I could lose features. As a customer it really just pisses me off that software engineers have never figured out a way to get tech to do the heavy lifting instead of the customer.
Every software update has made my car less. Few friggin changes. I bought the car and it could self park, change lanes smoothly and drive home. It cannot do any of those things any more and the cruise control was tampered with so that it now acts like it is part of "autopilot" features making it useless on roads with any construction---useless cruise control on a luxury vehicle is not a small change.

 

[EV-Fixme]

Reading the following thread ( Maximum battery charge level reduced ) discloses that many owners have gotten a battery error message when the firmware on their car was updated to 2019.40.2.3, requiring replacement of the HV battery. Further, once the error message is displayed the car battery will no longer charge it will only charge to a low level, such as 30% SOC. I wonder if Tesla’s insistence on updating to this firmware version has nothing to do with the vpn server, but is actually in response to the class action lawsuit against Tesla and the government investigation of the battery issues and is Tesla’s covert attempt to retrieve the “bad” battery packs.

In any event, as I am traveling it is only prudent to avoid installing this update until such time as I am close to a service center, in the event my car displays the battery error message once the firmware is installed.

I was just thinking how horrible this would be for a family on a road trip, update comes, someone accidentally hits a button, the battery is out of warranty, and now you wont have enough to make it to the next supercharger.... And your pretty much stranded.. The car would have continued letting you drive if you didnt take the update...

 

[JBT66]

What if it allows the house to last 30 years instead of 20 before needing a roof replacement ?

That's not even remotely a good argument. AOL is a recurring service.

If AOL offered me a lifetime membership for $90k they better make sure I stay connected.

A more apt comparison would be buying a house. And that house having a free home control system with lifetime services. The they do a software update that makes your rooms 20% smaller. Then 6 months later say all your services go away if you don't update. When that update can change the size of your rooms.

 

[3mp_kwh]

What if it allows the house to last 30 years instead of 20 before needing a roof replacement ?

No. The post you quoted, I thought, summed it up pretty well, "... they do a software update that makes your rooms 20% smaller. Then 6 months later say all your services go away if you don't update. When that update can change the size of your rooms."

My understanding is Apple survived its battery throttling lawsuit, because users allowing updates basically gave the company the green light. Forcing updates fails this defense.

If I ever do buy another Tesla, it won't happen without understanding the latest ways they attempt to turn traditional car ownership into rent.

 

[DaveBC]

There you go folks .why we can't have nice things. someone who stated he would ignore the update , then if there was a crash Sue Tesla if they didn't issue a recall .lol telling you to. "update this is the fix "is less onerous than dragging the car in for them to tweak it. it's the same as a recall. you would be negligent not to. Entitled, spoiled, ridiculous people who cause us not to be able to enjoy anything in America.

“Update this and get a new Atari games plus other small bug fixes” is a completely different situation to “We have discovered a safety issue with your vehicle and this firmware update is necessary to remedy it”

If a customer was notified by the manufacturer that an update is for safety the customer would be negligent to not apply the update.
If the manufacturer issued the statement describing a safety fix as small bug fixes they are being negligent.
At first I couldn’t imagine myself suing Tesla after not applying an update. You’re doing a good job convincing how that could be justified.

 

[docdeb27]

“Update this and get a new Atari games plus other small bug fixes” is a completely different situation to “We have discovered a safety issue with your vehicle and this firmware update is necessary to remedy it”

If a customer was notified by the manufacturer that an update is for safety the customer would be negligent to not apply the update.
If the manufacturer issued the statement describing a safety fix as small bug fixes they are being negligent.
At first I couldn’t imagine myself suing Tesla after not applying an update. You’re doing a good job convincing how that could be justified.

You missed the point.