KArnold
Active Member
I'd love to see new beta testers for at least 98% of them. Very few provide the kind of info/feedback I'd like to see and I don't want to watch an hour long drive @ 1x either.
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Tesla.com - "Transitioning to Tesla Vision"
- Thread starter run-the-joules
- Start date
powertoold
Active Member
If he wanted to hide stuff, why would he even show them? Plus, one example of a whoops doesn't mean he's just wants to keep Tesla "happy".
Literally within 30 seconds of this recent video, he already calls "this lane change is stupid":
Please, tell us how we're misusing Full Self Driving....
By making up stuff that doesn’t exist to the extent you claim it. And jumping on any negative thread about Tesla anything.
When I use EAP I know the limits and drive within them. I don’t expect car to fully drive me without hick ups here and there and me not paying attention to the road. So I am not caught off guard when system underperforming in some areas.
Disclaimer, I haven't used AP more than a few times, but there's a huge difference between using a system that is predictable and using a system that is not. So in that sense, I can understand why someone would say dumb cruise is better. I'm confident that I can drive a 'dumb' car on the highway without it causing an accident. If I need the same level of alertness to ensure that AP doesn't cause an accident, where is the benefit? As a prospective buyer I'm trying to figure out of a Model 3 is still worth it minus AP, because I can't fathom how it will make my commute less stressful until the phantom breaking is solved.
I also find Dirty Tesla's videos to be very balanced and honest. I think one should look at them as more reportage and less as editorial opinion. (I know that's a dated analogy as today's news sources have major trouble with that distinction)
Obviously with the pause in beta releases he's had a lot of trouble coming up with frequent new and interesting videos to watch. It helped that he actually got a new car recently. But generally he doesn't waste our time with long 1X examples of perfect driving or gushing about how awesome FSD is. He points out the real problems very clearly, and even though he gets a bit frustrated he lets us know without belabored whining. The problems are the more interesting content and are shown, discussed and sometimes repeated at 1x. So problems end up taking far more than their share of content - that's what everyone wants including the ML engineers.
I think the summary is that he's not a "fanboy" who edits out mistakes or twists facts, but he is an enthusiast and a good-natured individual and he's one of the first sources I look to. Maybe that makes me a"Dirty Tesla fanboy" - a somewhat disturbing thought, but that's how I see it.
Good points regarding predictability and smart features.
But I think you may be overreacting to the phantom braking. I have only had my M3 a week now, and haven’t yet experienced phantom braking, but I have with my wife’s Honda Odyssey. It’s not frequent, but it is annoying when it happens. That said, using the “smart” safety features on both cars certainly DOES make my drives less stressful.
Source? And how is this misusing modern technology?
Source?
Source that the rest of us are not doing this? So your definition of "modern technology" is something that needs to be monitored constantly as it may fail in a way that will injure you? What's the newest airplane you are willing to fly on if that's your definition? Why are you not worried about the speed control in your Tesla also going haywire if this is just the expectation for modern technology?
The issue at discussion pretty constantly is that this is supposed to eventually be a system which does not require monitoring. Lots of people seem to think Tesla is well on their way and very close. Yet you say that it should be 100% expected that "modern tech" will just go bad now and then. How will Tesla ever get to L3+ if that's just what the future holds?
What is your point here except being annoyed at anyone that pushes back on the idea that Tesla is the leader in autonomy about to suddenly be L4?
As much as Elon is painted to be a hopelessly optimistic huckster, you have to give him some credit for this kind of admission about AI difficulty and the delays. Yes of course there are hundreds of people here who already "knew" that it would take longer, much longer, than his early and ongoing predictions. But there are precious few in this world who take on unimaginably hard or deemed-impossible challenges and push through them the way he's doing (and in multiple areas).
I certainly wish that he would find a way to reduce the ambiguity in many of his statements. I think his mental grasp of detail and complexity is very high-level, but his ability and/or motivation to express it in tweets or stockholder meetings often falls short - and he has little interest in a staff of explainers to clean up after him. Nor for market researchers, focus groups, government or press liaisons and all the rest.
Anyway, I like this particular message from him.
(Playing devil's advocate, one could say that this admission of difficulty "in retrospect" is a coded warning of really major setbacks in Tesla's own evaluation of their current HW+SW platform. That's possible, but I'll choose to interpret it, for now, as simply continued optimism annealed by undeniable reality.)
KArnold
Active Member
Well said, thank you.
Most would agree he is absolutely brilliant, like Einstein brilliant.
But I'm sure these days, Elon either doesn't care about the hurt his comments cost? Or maybe he's not aware he is lying? Or nobody there will tell the king "you have no clothes on"? Who knows? All we see is disappointment, frustration; and anxgst against Tesla. Wonder if he has any confidant who could let him know, or (again) at least know how to tell the truth from the not-so-true's.
Most would agree he is absolutely brilliant, like Einstein brilliant.
But I'm sure these days, Elon either doesn't care about the hurt his comments cost? Or maybe he's not aware he is lying? Or nobody there will tell the king "you have no clothes on"? Who knows? All we see is disappointment, frustration; and anxgst against Tesla. Wonder if he has any confidant who could let him know, or (again) at least know how to tell the truth from the not-so-true's.
What has Elon created, by himself, that is on the order of Einstein?
Why would an Einstein level brilliant person need someone to tell the truth from the not so true? They would just know. You'd think they would also be able to see that generalized self driving would be very hard from miles away, not "I think self driving is a solved problem" back in 2015 and taking until 2021 to see that it's hard, but now that they see that, don't worry, FSD will be "soon."
Seriously, Elon is a brilliant marketer, a driven entrepreneur, and someone willing to try crazy things that has managed to get the resources to pay tons of people to try what he wants. But individually as smart as Einstein?
Do people really believe Elon is working on FSD in any way? That he knows any of the deep details about computer vision? Why do we ignore all the very smart people at Tesla and SpaceX who actually work on this stuff as if Elon tells them what to do and they are just brainless machines implementing it? That if Elon died, Tesla would stop innovating because all the ideas and execution come from him?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I can't speak to how much he does on FSD... but he's the lead engineer at SpaceX, and a lot of experts on engineering and space have remarked that he legitimately does that job.
Not to take away from the many other brilliant folks there- but he's absolutely one of em and the one leading the work.
There are many kinds of brilliance or genius, often counterbalanced by a deficiency in other area(s). Einstein was not someone who would ever create and run companies, or even charismatically inspire a large team of researchers. I understand the comparison but I think it's a bit apples and oranges.
Closer to Elons field and techno-social space-travel vision, Werner von Braun leveraged government and military resources throughout his career to enable his rocketry work, choosing to accept the slave-labor conditions, Nazi-party and SS organizations and later nuclear-weapons platform impetus that propelled the funding for his undeniably great achievements. (To be clear I reject any simplistic judgment or historical cancellation in this regard; I'm making a point about the complex relationship between technical excellence and social/intrapersonal capabilites).
Elon has his foibles as we all do, but I think it's a massive failure of both understanding and interpretation to categorize him as a greedy liar who hasn't really accomplished much on his own talent.
Closer to Elons field and techno-social space-travel vision, Werner von Braun leveraged government and military resources throughout his career to enable his rocketry work, choosing to accept the slave-labor conditions, Nazi-party and SS organizations and later nuclear-weapons platform impetus that propelled the funding for his undeniably great achievements. (To be clear I reject any simplistic judgment or historical cancellation in this regard; I'm making a point about the complex relationship between technical excellence and social/intrapersonal capabilites).
Elon has his foibles as we all do, but I think it's a massive failure of both understanding and interpretation to categorize him as a greedy liar who hasn't really accomplished much on his own talent.
linux-works
Active Member
I might define 'most' quite a bit differently from you.
lets just say that your statement is pure fanboyism. no serious non-fanboy would ever THINK to say something so absurd.
mikes_fsd
Banned
This is rich, coming from somebody that started a thread on these forums questioning whether Elon Musk was an engineer or not!
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