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Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?

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If it becomes law it will have to be within the next few weeks, after that they will have to focus on the budget and debt ceiling which has to be taken care of by December 4th or the govt will shut down and we will default. Then starting January we go officially into election season which would greatly hurt the bills chances. It’s pretty much now or never.
I agree with you.
Now the question is, do we as a country really need this bill in order to sell Electric vehicles? The way I understand it, Ford can't make enough Mach E vehicles. Dealers attempt to charge a massive additional fee. Rivian is only making one a day and the demand is huge. I'm sure there is a hummer waiting list. Hell, it's be advertised enough. With Hertz buying 100,000 vehicles, I believe it's already slipped some M3 deliveries. The only EV vehicles not selling are the non compelling models. All this talk about by 2025 50% vehicles will be electric. We don't need this build back better logo, we just need manufactures to build better electrics.
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If the delivery charge doesn’t count, what would keep a company from lowering the price to under the limit and having a $10k delivery charge?
Or what about how Tesla did it in Canada. Make the car cheap enough to qualify for rebate and limit the battery capacity. Make it a software unlock you have to pay for after purchase to open up full battery capacity. Net-net the price stays the same for Tesla and the consumer, but now the consumer qualifies for the rebate. 94 Miles is pretty low and clearly just a way to allow consumers to qualify. No one would actually want to spend that much on a car for 75 miles usable range.

Only downside would be you wouldn't be able to finance the software purchase after the fact. And actually with the recent price increases, I'm not sure if even the RWD Standard Range Model 3 qualifies anymore. But Tesla did make it a software unlock to qualify earlier in the year.
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Or what about how Tesla did it in Canada. Make the car cheap enough to qualify for rebate and limit the battery capacity. Make it a software unlock you have to pay for after purchase to open up full battery capacity. Net-net the price stays the same for Tesla and the consumer, but now the consumer qualifies for the rebate. Only downside would be you wouldn't be able to finance the software purchase after the fact. And actually with the recent price increases, I'm not sure if even the RWD Standard Range Model 3 qualifies anymore. But Tesla did make it a software unlock to qualify earlier in the year.
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Wow that’s crazy!
 
I agree with you.
Now the question is, do we as a country really need this bill in order to sell Electric vehicles? The way I understand it, Ford can't make enough Mach E vehicles. Dealers attempt to charge a massive additional fee. Rivian is only making one a day and the demand is huge. I'm sure there is a hummer waiting list. Hell, it's be advertised enough. With Hertz buying 100,000 vehicles, I believe it's already slipped some M3 deliveries. The only EV vehicles not selling are the non compelling models. All this talk about by 2025 50% vehicles will be electric. We don't need this build back better logo, we just need manufactures to build better electrics.
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I'd say...sort of?

If I were in charge, and trying to both help the people that actually need it most and the environment, the focus would be helping broaden the base of EV vehicle buyers. Means test for income, lower cap on total vehicle price, which would create a new category of buyers and stimulate production of more moderately priced EV's by manufacturers. They (production side) are still focused on the more well heeled buyer who are already going EV anyhow. Tesla can't make enough to satisfy demand. We have to incent people that are still buying gassers due to income and product price point constraints. The existing stimulus are helping create some Tesla competition , we need to accellerate that and not keep stoking Tesla demand, as much as I'd love free money for my impending Tesla purchase.
 
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I see it as a win-win.

In the long run EVs won't hold value. They're like any other piece of tech... who wants a 5yr old PC or phone? Their values are next to nothing.

The only redeemable benefit from Teslas are if FSD actually ends up working. Then those older cars will maintain value (as long as the HW is good enough). It's a gamble
 
Isn't that a good thing? More people will be buying EVs

Demand side isn't the problem for Tesla - who make "luxury" cars that the average American can not afford even with a tax credit. They are production constrained and until Austin is fully operational it will remain that way.

The tax credit is still applicable for Mach-Es, ID.4s, Polestars, etc. and most are production constrained and those that are... doesn't matter if there is a tax credit because few want their cars.

I do think cheaper EVs is the path forward. $30K MSRP EVs with tax credits.
 
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You have to look at any EV incentive policy from a big-picture point of view. If you want to push the population at large towards adapting EVs and build up EV infrastructure along the way, you need to provide incentives for a large swath of the population. PHEVs are also eligible for this rebate and are a great entrypoint for a large section of the population into EVs. A lot of people here turn their nose up in disdain over PHEVs but I'm all for them existing because EVs haven't achieved parity with ICE vehicles just yet to match everyone's personal use cases. Tons of people who would never have considered EVs, are going to be incentivized to go the PHEV route due to the credits. Others who were on the fence will make the plunge with EVs due to the significant incentives. Unreasonable amounts of means testing is also going to hurt the overall goal. You want people who tend to buy cars and upgrade cars to also be incentivized to spend their money on EVs. That's one less ICE vehicle on the road every time someone makes that decision. It's one thing if you were subsidizing Model S Plaid and Roadsters, but it is perfectly reasonable to subsidize cars like the MY and M3 (along with competitors in the same price range) because these are high-volume cars and your best bet of quickly transforming the make-up of America's vehicles.

Calling Tesla and other EVs as "luxury" vehicles also is a bit short-sighted. The more Teslas and other EVs that cost $50K+ that are sold now, the more used EVs there will be on the market in a few years at affordable prices. The more the market appetite for EVs grow and infrastructure along with it, the more it enables manufacturers to push ahead with trying to reduce costs. A $30K EV is not very far away. And it's not like large numbers of Americans don't buy $40K+ cars every year. This is not an overnight transformation. But it gets the ball rolling in a pretty big way to help with this transition.

Edit - Also, by making a large portion of the population eligible for these credits when buying their next cars, this also pressures other car makers to stop dragging their feet and really invest in EVs at volume. Again, from a big-picture, multi-year view, these are all good things that this type of policy will bring about. It's easy to get caught up in a myopic view of Person X who has way too much money got a tax-credit to buy a Model Y, but that is missing the forest for the trees imo.
 
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I agree with you.
Now the question is, do we as a country really need this bill in order to sell Electric vehicles? The way I understand it, Ford can't make enough Mach E vehicles. Dealers attempt to charge a massive additional fee. Rivian is only making one a day and the demand is huge. I'm sure there is a hummer waiting list. Hell, it's be advertised enough. With Hertz buying 100,000 vehicles, I believe it's already slipped some M3 deliveries. The only EV vehicles not selling are the non compelling models. All this talk about by 2025 50% vehicles will be electric. We don't need this build back better logo, we just need manufactures to build better electrics.
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This is my feeling too. From the looks of it, the demand for Teslas is only getting started without the incentives. I’m sure it’ll let up some if they pulled the incentives, but most of these reservations were made knowing the incentives were iffy.

Tesla’s stock would take a short term hit and their margins might suffer, but long term production won’t slow down a bit. Tesla is pulling in more money than they can deploy right now.
 
One thing missing from the discussion over whether tax credits or other stimulus is needed for EV adoption is that the timeline for the credits is over 5 years. At least on the latest reading of the bill. Why is that timeline important? Because we are still in the early stages of a major technological change from ICE to EV. Other industries have gone through similar shifts, most recently the smartphone. We can look at the adoption curve of that new tech to help us understand why having a prolonged stimulus makes sense.

Asymco on the Innovator's Stopwatch

We are, by any measure, early adopters of EV technology. We put up with delays, poor fit and finish, broken supercharger networks, etc. All because we like and believe in the technology. As many have said, we don't need any extra push to get us buying EV. But how many of us are there? When push comes to shove, it's a small slice of the overall population.

The rest of people need convenience and shop on cost. If there are any problems finding a way to "fill up", soccer moms are not going to be too happy about tech-geek dad buying a fancy new electric vehicle. Unless it's worth the cost. Over the next 5 years, you're going to see many people buy EVs even with the hassle of a poorly built-out charging network because the cost/benefit is there.

And when most people are buying EVs, guess what happens to the charging network? It also gets built out. Reducing the headaches for EV drivers and changing that cost/benefit calculation even more in favor of EVs. Remember, we're talking 5 years of stimulus, not 6 months.

Could the money better go to only people who need the monetary push to buy an EV? I know I placed my order a couple of weeks ago without any knoweledge of a stimulus. I didn't, and neither did many of you, need a push. So, certainly it could. But how do you target that effectively? We can't wait for the adoption curve to play out - we need to speed it up. And in order to do that, we need cars on the road so the charging infrastructure could get built out.

Could the money have better gone to building out said charging network? Of course, but how would you feel to see charging stations littering the country with no cars to charge up? It would be "oh look. I wonder how much that company paid Senator so-and-so" or "yet another example of wasteful government spending. All these empty charging stations..." And no one like corporate handouts which is certainly how these things would have been spun.

So, the solution is a 5 year boost the nascent EV industry. It doesn't need it today but once the early adopters get theirs, it will. And if you know how government works, it's not responsive to market forces. It would be neigh impossible to get something passed immediately.

I don't want to get into the politics of this but I do believe it's sound policy.
 
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I don't want to get into the politics of this but I do believe it's sound policy
All of the arguments you make are a fantastic justification for doubling or tripling the $7.5b they have set aside from EV infrastructure. Not a great justification for spending tens of billions of dollars helping people buy PHEVs.

If this policy just benefitted BEVs, it would be tolerable. The fact that it funnels billions into companies for producing ICE cars with tiny batteries makes it a giant waste of money.

If they spent the money on infrastructure, they would have enough money to install charging stations at all the soccer fields in the country and the soccer moms would never need to worry about finding a charger.
 
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Could the money have better gone to building out said charging network? Of course, but how would you feel to see charging stations littering the country with no cars to charge up? It would be "oh look. I wonder how much that company paid Senator so-and-so" or "yet another example of wasteful government spending. All these empty charging stations..." And no one like corporate handouts which is certainly how these things would have been spun.

I agree with you, but also want to point out that the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill has funding towards building out EV charging networks. So ideally we will have a two pronged approach.

Bipartisan infrastructure bill passes US Senate with billions for EV charging network.
"Specifically, the bill includes $7.5 billion to create charging stations all across the US, which would inevitably help spur EV adoption in the country. In addition, the bill includes another $7.5 billion to transition buses and other public transportation away from fossil fuels and to zero-emission options. Further, $66 billion goes to Amtrak to fund a backlog of repairs, and to help expand routes across the US."
 
I just want a resolution to this before my delivery. I want to make my decision to take or hold the car with all the information possible.
This is where I'm at. Currently sitting on a delivery date of 1/2 - 1/20 for my MY.

Can anyone confirm this applies to vehicles "purchased" after 1/1/2022? I'm reading through the text but can't find anything that states the date it would apply.
 
This is where I'm at. Currently sitting on a delivery date of 1/2 - 1/20 for my MY.

Can anyone confirm this applies to vehicles "purchased" after 1/1/2022? I'm reading through the text but can't find anything that states the date it would apply.


As of right now, the EV tax credit for personal vehicles has an effective date of 12/31/21 so would need to be purchased after that date to qualify.
I just saw this at the end of the text. Can someone clarify what item (2) is? From what I gather subsection (b) is the actual credit amounts. I read this to mean the tax credits are not actually effective until 2023. Tell me I'm wrong.

Sec. 36C. New qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicles.''.
(e) Effective Dates.--
(1) The amendments made by subsections (a), (c), and (d) of
this section shall apply to vehicles acquired after December
31, 2021.
(2) The amendments made by subsection (b) shall apply to

vehicles purchased or leased after December 31, 2022.