I usually like Randy Carlson's writings. There are a few good writers on SeekingAlpha wrt Tesla. Unfortunately, they are drowned out by plenty of prolific bears with little rational to say. I don't mind hearing the bear's points of view, and occasionally there are rational thinking TSLA bears that post there, but SA gets repetitive with lots of bears that promoting things that don't make any rational sense at all. It's quite strange.
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Tesla Gigafactory
- Thread starter domenick
- Start date
I usually like Randy Carlson's writings. There are a few good writers on SeekingAlpha wrt Tesla. Unfortunately, they are drowned out by plenty of prolific bears with little rational to say. I don't mind hearing the bear's points of view, and occasionally there are rational thinking TSLA bears that post there, but SA gets repetitive with lots of bears that promoting things that don't make any rational sense at all. It's quite strange.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Author payment: $35 + $0.01/page view.
If it wasn't chopped up into 21 pages I might have bothered to read past page the first 3% of the content.
I don't see Tesla abandoning liquid cooling. Their current system is really complicated / overkill (like much of the "get-it-done" engineering in the Model S -- Musk has recently commented on this in contrast to design for manufacturing in Model 3). I think it's more likely they optimize / cost-reduce / design-for-manufacturing a next-gen liquid cooling system vs switching to air.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Unfortunately Randy is likely completely wrong on this one, as I explained in the "Batteries Stupid" thread.
I like Randy Carlson's stuff too, and I did find a rational bear case there once. But there's so much garbage there that I can't be bothered to sift through SeekingAlph any more.
Ulmo
Active Member
Passive air cooling has sank many competing car models. Reminds me of laptops. Incidentally, also lithium ion batteries. See all the problems with Leaf, et al.
As far as I'm concerned, anybody who doesn't do thorough temperature control of their current tech batteries isn't a serious contender. Mind you, if they come up with some other cool technology other than liquid heat movement and stuff, who cares, as long as it works. But a lot of lesser competitors relied on just not temperature controlling their batteries, hoping they would stay in range long enough, and often (usually) they would not. All this nonsense about Tesla's cooling and heating system for the battery pack being excessive is just jealousy as far as I'm concerned. Either it's excessive or it's not enough.
Two facts that are wrong in your post.
Randy is talking about active air cooling (not passive). Blowing cold - 0C - air.
Leaf has NO cooling. It's battery pack is completely sealed the cells simply get cooked. There is no air movement even to distribute the heat within the pack.
I don't see any cooling happening in my S even when the ambient temp is over 100F and after a long drive. The only time I have heard of any cooling is during supercharging on a hot day - which means the objective is to keep the cells below say 110F (just saying) and not necessarily bring it down to say 80F.
Now the only question is can Active air cooling do the job for those edge cases?
Randy is talking about active air cooling (not passive). Blowing cold - 0C - air.
Leaf has NO cooling. It's battery pack is completely sealed the cells simply get cooked. There is no air movement even to distribute the heat within the pack.
I don't see any cooling happening in my S even when the ambient temp is over 100F and after a long drive. The only time I have heard of any cooling is during supercharging on a hot day - which means the objective is to keep the cells below say 110F (just saying) and not necessarily bring it down to say 80F.
Now the only question is can Active air cooling do the job for those edge cases?
redevries
René de Vries
If you're really 'working the pack', by driving fast, say 100 mph for an extended period of time - you will hear the same sound as you mention at the Supercharger for quite some time.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Why do you think there is no cooling at other times? There should be two components of the cooling, liquid circulating around the cells and through the heat exchanger, which you would probably never know was happening, and then the fan speed increasing on the heat exchanger, which you would hear when it gets fast enough.
Temp reads 105F inside my garage, and I guess 95F outside. And as I park my car after a 40 mile freeway driving at 70 mph, and watch and strain my ears to listen, the car is silent. Throughout the night. Any movement of any fluids or any activity at all would produce some noise. Nothing. So I proceed to plug in, (with the timer ON to start the charge later past midnight), hoping perhaps that would trigger some activity. Nothing. Quiet as a mouse.
This tells me that the objective of cooling here is to reduce the temps on the edge cases from say 140F to perhaps 110F during aggressive driving on a hot day or supercharging. The main advantage of air cooling is that it can dissipate heat evenly across the whole cell surface, leaving no hotspots.
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
Really? I sure do see active cooling and I've never driven in 100ºF weather. Drive at highway speeds — that's 75-80 mph here in the Intermountain West — and throw in elevation changes and/or wind, and the cooling system is going full blast for awhile when I stop.
Phil Seastrand
Member
I was traveling west on I80 during our trip and thought I would stop by the Gigafactory and snap a shot or two from outside the gate. I drove up Electric Avenue and stopped well short of the gate and got out to take my pictures. Someone who worked there happened to be driving up and stopped and told me that I shouldn't take any pictures because they have cameras that can spot me from a long distance away and "tag" me for later so as to ban me from visiting the factory. I stopped shooting and left. YMMV but wanted to pass the warning along.
That's insane behavior on Tesla's part. It's perfectly reasonable to photograph from public roads and it's nuts to ban visitors later because they took photos from a public road. Is someone involved a bit of a control freak or what?
(Obviously, trespassers are a problem, but seriously, man... the government isn't even allowed to discriminate against people who photograph military bases from public roads. It's just rude behavior for Tesla to be this paranoid.)
While they've changed values over time, you can see on the diagnostic screens where both the active and passive cooling targets are for major components:
That 30C passive target for the batter is 86F. This supports JRP3's assertion that it's likely the car HAS been cooling the battery, even if you don't hear the active equipment, which in this case is 55C = 131F.
favo
P3D+ owner
It could be they are only actually worried about employees taking photos, which they are probably not allowed to do.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Nissan must have limited the power of the leaf to keep the battery temp to a minimum.
Garlan Garner
Banned
I wonder how they would have known who he was....How can they ban someone and don't know who they are?
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