Tesla in Australia

[moollar]

Perhaps we can complain about the price after all as Carsales.com.au compare its price unfavourably with low spec Mercedes E Class and BMW 5 Series.
Tesla Model S priced from $96K
Interesting to compare the comments with the Drive.com.au article, these seem even worse.

Yeah, good to see your comment though. At least there were a couple of level headed people in the comments.

Congrats to those who have placed their orders now. Look forward to seeing some on the streets of Sydney in the (hopefully) not too distant future! :biggrin:

Unfortunately, there's no way I could get one at the moment. Although, we could pay cash for a fully maxed out P85+ if we sold our house, but the minister for finance would never go for that.... :wink:

Hopefully, the agony of waiting for Gen III won't be too terrible. Either that or maybe MangroveMike can let me know when he's upgrading in a few years (sweet ride mate!).

 

[Dborn]

Yeah, good to see your comment though. At least there were a couple of level headed people in the comments.

Congrats to those who have placed their orders now. Look forward to seeing some on the streets of Sydney in the (hopefully) not too distant future! :biggrin:

Unfortunately, there's no way I could get one at the moment. Although, we could pay cash for a fully maxed out P85+ if we sold our house, but the minister for finance would never go for that.... :wink:

Hopefully, the agony of waiting for Gen III won't be too terrible. Either that or maybe MangroveMike can let me know when he's upgrading in a few years (sweet ride mate!).

At this stage, we are being told late July. Probably Tesla time, but maybe not. The 40amp wall connectors are availablele now, I am told...

- - - Updated - - -

What makes you think you may need three phase? I'm led to believe its technically feasible to get 40A single phase which (assuming 95% efficiency) which is 8.7kWh/hr.
Ok its not supercharger territory (200+A/~350-390V DC) but its likely 'good enough' for majority of cases.

The only way three phase power will provide an advantage is if you spec'd the "dual chargers" AU$1800 option which enables up to 80A HPWC.

Likely cost of getting 3 phase is pretty similar wherever you are in Australia. There will be costs associated with connection to street / service fuses, meter changeover and main switchboard changes. Whether your power is overhead or underground, distances and so on will be a big factor, likely $5K 'typical' but maybe $3K to $8K range.

agree. If I didn't already have 3 phase available, I would certainly not be going that route.

 

[president_ltd]

Additionally, if I add up everything in the house I'm coming pretty close to the 80/100A service limit right now and so getting a 20 or 32A circuit could be an issue.

No - it doesn't work like that. Sizing is based on "maximum demand" not "maximum rating" and common sense prevails.
Its not likely every circuit you have would be at 100% of the breaker load.
Its likely you would be charging off-peak. You do have off-peak elec h/w heating - so that may be a factor for off-peak but most of the other stuff would not.

Case in point: you have 2x10A circuits w/ 16A breakers for your power points. A single device in one outlet could consume 10A. Does that mean that you can only use at most 2 outlets in your entire house? no.

Its also likely that while your A/C is on a 32A breaker its actually likely a 10KW 'cooling' unit with COP/EER of 3, i.e. consumes at most 3.3KW power or 15A. Breakers are there to protect the cabling and don't reflect typical load.

In any case to add a 'hard wired' EVSE will require a sparkie to do it, they can advise on what is possible.
I believe 40A should be possible, failing that 30A.

It doesn't quite work like that.
You really need to find out the size of your cable coming from your suppliers connection point to your house and how the cable is installed. This will let you know how much current you can draw from your energy provider.

It doesn't quite work like that either.
The CB on the "master switch" will pretty much show this - and in my case, its a CB rated for 63A which tells me its an 80A cable w/ derating 20%.
If its an older installation without a CB on the master switch then yes one would need to look at the service fuse to figure it out, but its typically 63A, 80A, 100A.

The other thing to do is a maximum demand. It's the Australian standards way of tallying up everything electrical in your house(different from adding up circuit breakers).
And you need a licensed electrician to do this for you.
I'm in Launceston so sorry but I can't come round and help you happy to give some tips if you need it though.

Agree with this.

 

[Mark E]

No - it doesn't work like that. Sizing is based on "maximum demand" not "maximum rating" and common sense prevails.
Its not likely every circuit you have would be at 100% of the breaker load.
Its likely you would be charging off-peak. You do have off-peak elec h/w heating - so that may be a factor for off-peak but most of the other stuff would not.

Case in point: you have 2x10A circuits w/ 16A breakers for your power points. A single device in one outlet could consume 10A. Does that mean that you can only use at most 2 outlets in your entire house? no.

Its also likely that while your A/C is on a 32A breaker its actually likely a 10KW 'cooling' unit with COP/EER of 3, i.e. consumes at most 3.3KW power or 15A. Breakers are there to protect the cabling and don't reflect typical load.

In any case to add a 'hard wired' EVSE will require a sparkie to do it, they can advise on what is possible.
I believe 40A should be possible, failing that 30A.



It doesn't quite work like that either.
The CB on the "master switch" will pretty much show this - and in my case, its a CB rated for 63A which tells me its an 80A cable w/ derating 20%.
If its an older installation without a CB on the master switch then yes one would need to look at the service fuse to figure it out, but its typically 63A, 80A, 100A.



Agree with this.

This all makes sense to me, I have a 100A service fuse and was surprised that the AC was on a 32A, but it's a 5kW system. Not sure what the law was regarding ratings - in the same way that the 10A power circuits are on a 16A breaker to make sure that you can run a microwave and a jug at the same time. Part of the motivation is to see if dual chargers are worth having before I finalise the config. Any opinions?

 

[Higgy]

For those that have ordered this is essential viewing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpeVAnFH98Y

 

[Dborn]

For those that have ordered this is essential viewing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpeVAnFH98Y

hahaha!!

 

[MangroveMike]

Hopefully, the agony of waiting for Gen III won't be too terrible. Either that or maybe MangroveMike can let me know when he's upgrading in a few years (sweet ride mate!).

Thanks, although it'll be about 20 years before I'm allowed to get another car

 

[MangroveMike]

This all makes sense to me, I have a 100A service fuse and was surprised that the AC was on a 32A, but it's a 5kW system. Not sure what the law was regarding ratings - in the same way that the 10A power circuits are on a 16A breaker to make sure that you can run a microwave and a jug at the same time. Part of the motivation is to see if dual chargers are worth having before I finalise the config. Any opinions?

The reason why I decided to go for dual chargers wasn't for home, but mainly for the future. Assuming success of Model S, X and E and uptake of other EVs there will be more and more generic charging stations, not just Superchargers (which bypass the inboard chargers). So if I was to have complete freedom to drive wherever I want in a few years, a one hour top up in the middle of nowhere is feasible, a two hour wait starts to lose its shine.
The chargepoint website (chargepoint.com.au) shows more locations than I expected even 3 here in Newcastle (although only one looks active). I would guess that networks like this will be the petrol (refueling) stations of the future. In the US some of these charge stations go to 90 amps.
I think a second charger can be added later but in the USA the cost is about double than if it was spec'd originally. Even with the pathetically-evil luxury car tax, sorry I mean levy, it still makes sense to add it now. I also think it will add to resale value in a few years time.
That's what my thought processes were, but if you are trading off other options which you can't add later, at least the extra charger can be.

 

[Tasdevil]

Tesla in Australia?

It doesn't quite work like that either.
The CB on the "master switch" will pretty much show this - and in my case, its a CB rated for 63A which tells me its an 80A cable w/ derating 20%.
If its an older installation without a CB on the master switch then yes one would need to look at the service fuse to figure it out, but its typically 63A, 80A, 100A.

Well there is more than 1 way to measure maximum demand; calculation, limitation, measurement... I chose calculation. but I didn't want to go into detail.
In any case you still need to do what I said to install the "master switch" CB.
Tassie was discovered first so a lot more older installations here

What's your day job president_ltd?

 

[MangroveMike]

For those that have ordered this is essential viewing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpeVAnFH98Y

Nice! Their 'Nod' video (The Tesla Nod - YouTube ) is pretty smiley as well.

 

[tess1988]

Might be a bit off topic but has anyone here who owns a business through about installing a charging station, it might be harder to get council approval in the street, but if you owned a car park it should be alright, i wish Woolworth's would do it.

 

[TesAus]

Might be a bit off topic but has anyone here who owns a business through about installing a charging station, it might be harder to get council approval in the street, but if you owned a car park it should be alright, i wish Woolworth's would do it.

The Woolworth's closest to our home has two charging point and two spots marked "free charging for electric cars". I believe it is a only 10A sockets - haven't needed to check it out. They are in an underground car park so out of the weather and is in a complex with cafés and other shops. They show up on Plugshare although the photo is wrong.

 

[gregincal]

Perhaps we can complain about the price after all as Carsales.com.au compare its price unfavourably with low spec Mercedes E Class and BMW 5 Series.
Tesla Model S priced from $96K
Interesting to compare the comments with the Drive.com.au article, these seem even worse.

Given that the Model S is more expensive than the entry level Mercedes E class or BMW 5 series in the US, one could hardly expect it would be different in Australia. The difference is when you get to something like the M5, which is priced similarly to the P85+ in the US but is far more expensive than the P85+ in Australia.

 

[voyxr6]

Yeah oops. I had it in my diary as Tuesday don't know why I was thinking Wed!

Anyway - I'm seeing more and more green cars on the road since making my choice and am now unsure of it!!! Can look great (Jaguar) or terrible (every other green I've seen) depending on the shade. I just hope the Model S comes through very nice in person.

Tesla Model S Colors on the Road - YouTube

Blue - 00:00
Green - 02:10
Brown - 04:35
Gray - 06:23
Silver - 07:33
White - 08:01
Black - 08:41
Signature Red - 09:44

 

[moollar]

The Woolworth's closest to our home has two charging point and two spots marked "free charging for electric cars". I believe it is a only 10A sockets - haven't needed to check it out. They are in an underground car park so out of the weather and is in a complex with cafés and other shops. They show up on Plugshare although the photo is wrong.

That wouldn't happen to be the Woollies at Round Corner would it? My in-laws live in Dural and that's their local Woollies. I've seen the two spaces there. Nobody ever seems to park in them as well (i.e. I haven't seen them ICEd), because they're about as far away from the underground entrance as you can get.

Perhaps I could use this to convince them to get some sort of EV....

 

[Johnwill]

I see quite a few bits of misinformation about electrical wiring in this thread recently. Perhaps a separate thread might be worthwhile. I'd be happy to share my +35 years experience in the industry if it helps.

A few things to note:

Load is not the final defining factor in circuit breaker sizing, cable size is.
You can have a 5 amp appliance connected to a 20A MCB as long as the cable in-between is rated correctly. Where you see a 16A MCB on a circuit that feeds 10A sockets it's because the TPS cables in the walls are rated for the 16A. The whole AS/NZ regulations is about safety from electrical shock and fire hazard. They don't want fires starting in the walls of buildings from overheating cables. But if a plugged in appliance blows up, so what.

Your mains cable is matched to your pole fuse (at the street) base on size and distance. Fuses in your house are based on the wiring they protect. Switchboards have an amount of discrimination design into them. The reason the largest breaker you may have is only 63A, when the pole fuse is 80A, is not due to losses in the main cable. The reason the circuit breakers in your switchboard must be rated smaller than your pole fuse is so that they trip first.

Often what people think is the main circuit breaker is actually not. It is a switch, required as an isolation point, not a protection device.

The biggest user of power in your house is your stove/oven first and your hot water second.


I'd be wary about using dual chargers in a single phase domestic situation if it does require 80 or 100 amps. Overnight at a slow steady charge should be sufficient. It should also be more beneficial for battery life.

Before ordering dual chargers it would be wise to check if the maximum demand calculation for your home allows charging at greater than 40 amps. Or if you will have access to other sites (e.g. at work) which will allow you to draw the necessary charging current.

However for very fast ( < 1 hour) charges, when needed, I'd be leaning more toward promoting a network of direct DC charges (like a Supercharger station) that put out in excess of 100 amps. Mostly because a fast charge is needed more on long trips rather than daily commuting from home.

 

[Mark E]

I decided on the dual chargers anyway for future proofing the car - it'd be really annoying if there end up being 20kW chargers around that I can't use. At home I think that even 32A would be heaps. With any luck that won't be an issue to get installed at home.
As much as I want the P or P+ I can't justify the increase in price, & also decided to add different wheels later to avoid LCT on them, and potentially give me some more options. Also decided against Alacantara - which was a hard choice - but I wasn't sure how it'd look on the dash, and with the Pano roof its a lot of $ for a small amount of bling.

This is the most expensive car I've every bought, and the first new one since 1996! The next hard thing will actually be deciding to part with my current daily driver of 14 years, a Porsche 928 GT. Still love it, but will be space contained for parking it as the garage already has 2 cars plus motorcycle, workshop etc!

End config;


19" Wheels
85 kWh Model S
Black Nappa Leather Seats
Dual Chargers
Fog Lamps
Lacewood Décor
Panoramic Roof
Parcel Shelf
Parking Sensors
Pearl White Paint
Smart Air Suspension
Supercharger Enabled
Tech Package
Ultra High Fidelity Sound

Now the next long wait begins! 2.5 years since reservation, hopefully not long now.

 

[Dborn]

I decided on the dual chargers anyway for future proofing the car - it'd be really annoying if there end up being 20kW chargers around that I can't use. At home I think that even 32A would be heaps. With any luck that won't be an issue to get installed at home.
As much as I want the P or P+ I can't justify the increase in price, & also decided to add different wheels later to avoid LCT on them, and potentially give me some more options. Also decided against Alacantara - which was a hard choice - but I wasn't sure how it'd look on the dash, and with the Pano roof its a lot of $ for a small amount of bling.

This is the most expensive car I've every bought, and the first new one since 1996! The next hard thing will actually be deciding to part with my current daily driver of 14 years, a Porsche 928 GT. Still love it, but will be space contained for parking it as the garage already has 2 cars plus motorcycle, workshop etc!

End config;


19" Wheels
85 kWh Model S
Black Nappa Leather Seats
Dual Chargers
Fog Lamps
Lacewood Décor
Panoramic Roof
Parcel Shelf
Parking Sensors
Pearl White Paint
Smart Air Suspension
Supercharger Enabled
Tech Package
Ultra High Fidelity Sound

Now the next long wait begins! 2.5 years since reservation, hopefully not long now.

Congrats. pity we had to take the full options list or nothing in the Sig. Otherwise i would have removed heaps. As it is, oh well, you only live once, and yes it is the most expensive car i have ever bought. The last one was a Lexus LS 420 some years ago - a lovely car by the way.

 

[TesAus]

That wouldn't happen to be the Woollies at Round Corner would it? My in-laws live in Dural and that's their local Woollies. I've seen the two spaces there. Nobody ever seems to park in them as well (i.e. I haven't seen them ICEd), because they're about as far away from the underground entrance as you can get.

Perhaps I could use this to convince them to get some sort of EV....

Yes, well identified. Never iced that I have seen, but usually has a trolley collection trailer parked in one of them. It is a bit of a walk from the entrance ramp (maybe 100m max?), but is at least under cover and car park gets pretty full sometimes so might end up parking there anyway!

 

[Adapptor]

Would be good to see a list here of 'Confirmed' orders, the state of residence (NSW, VIC, etc) and what spec of car people went for. Spoke to Cary and he inferred that the quicker we all convert from reservation holders to confirmed orders, the quicker we'd all be seeing our cars/service centres. Makes sense, they're likely to wait till a set number of confirmations before production/shipment occurs.