yes, it’s very common for German car makers to test their cars on the nordschleife. This of course gets them some free media attention. Now, indeed, The rivelary is more media induced. Like they always announce the next “Tesla killer”....
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Tesla is back at the Ring
- Thread starter FreqFlyer
- Start date
yes, it’s very common for German car makers to test their cars on the nordschleife. This of course gets them some free media attention. Now, indeed, The rivelary is more media induced. Like they always announce the next “Tesla killer”....
Jigglypuff
Member
I much prefer the interior of my S to the German brands. Simple, elegant and functional. The others are overly fussy and klutzy.
geoffmanley
Member
There was an unofficial estimated time of 7:20 from the previous version of the Tesla.....So did this Prototype Model S beat the Pre Production Taycan?
I wonder if this new Model S will have Track Mode
Interesting in the first Video one of the badges said "100".
(Taycan was 7:42)
Not shoot you but how would VW buy Tesla? it is valued at 50% of VWs valuations, to buy them VW would take a huge huge amount of debt that they can't afford in order to put a 20% or greater multiple on the company. Toyota on the other hand might be able to buy Tesla if they really wanted to double down. Maybe Mercedes.. I don't think anyone else has the $ to make it happen, Tesla is the future and porsche will just slide into irrelevance.I think the difference with Porsche is the fact that they test with a pre-production model just before releasing it for production. Tesla comes with new gear that nobody heard of before plus a third engine etc and without knowing any specific specs which we do/did know about Porsche.
on the other hand, the Tesla community seems so afraid given some reactions, I don’t get it, Tesla still has a lead on anyone in the EV space and this will continue for,some time to come. Relax and applaud the fact that Porsche is investing time and money on R&D for EVs and is putting up a (small) fight. (For now)
I for one like the fact that they choose 800 volts and the second gearbox and have proven the relentlessness acceleration capabilities.
And now people are really gonna shoot at me:
Porsche should buy Tesla that would give us unlimited ludicrous, high build quality, killer range and efficiency.
The perfect EV
Perhaps you are also not aware that Porsche has been developing the toycan for as long as it took tesla to launch the x, M3 and y. Also perhaps not aware that Tesla has sold more cars this year than Porsche will all year. Porsche has slightly better build quality at a huge expense in build numbers, innovation, time to market, and value. The ring results are just nails in coffin. Tesla will launch a Model Pickup, a Roadster and a Semi in the time it takes Porsche to get the next electric porsche on the road. Just not sure why you think porsche is relevant ?
No, you are right..... VW, 7 biggest company on the fortune 500 list, selling 11 million cars a year, have 254 Billion in own assets, making 11 billion net profit per year, the biggest car maker in the world owning 324 brands from cars, trucks, machinery, bikes, ... (audi, skoda,porsche,vw,scania,seat, Lamborghini, Bentley,ducati, man,...)
So yes, buying 20-30% of Tesla and getting access to their tech would be totaly insane....you are aware that Tesla, probably, this year will have its first profitable year in it’s 12 year existence?
Porsche did 4 years to develop the Taycan
Porsche 911 represents only 11% of sales but is good for 2,47billion profit due to insane margins
Porsche recently entered Formula E and has a track record in racing with 800 volt hybrids since 2010
I agree they are tools and clueless ....and regarding your remark on quality, i’m not answering..
we’re probably are alligned on the fact that Tesla, currently, has the most advanced EV (tech, soft and charger network)
And let’s leave it at that because my initial remark was ment for fun actually but somehow it wasn’t perceived like this so no worries....
No thanks. Use the open patents. Show us you can build a better Tesla than Tesla. Don't buy Tesla and bury the product forever.
It's frankly embarrassing for existing automakers that nobody has done the obvious thing.
It was funny and bad on me to be serious...mea cupa.
VW stock remains in the tank, they have 10's of thousands of layoffs coming and no coherent strategy for the future. Don't ask me ask the stock market, they are the ones that count. Porsche was working on the electric car for 10 years, not 4. They did have insane margins which is why the profit is milked out and sent to VW (half of all vw profits). Like all VW companies they tried to avoid the EV movement and studied it to destroy it. By comp GM looks positively forward thinking. All the reasons you list for VW being able to buy Tesla is the reason they can't. With all those assets they are not a valuable company due to debt, pension obligations and huge numbers of employees. More important why would any Tesla shareholder want to get anchored to that sinking ship. 8 Years ago Mercedes made that investment not VW. Frankly I despise VW and have little use for luxury good makers that have no innovation (and yes...I mean porsche has effectively not doing anything interesting since 911).
It's very much like IBM ignoring Microsoft in 1984 and still in 1990...fast forward 20 years and IBM was no longer relevant, period. Tesla has the opportunity to kill traditional car makers because they recognize that the vehicle market is in a transition to self driving fleets and that individual car ownership will plummet. Started in Japan, moved to US and now to Europe. Youth are buying fewer cars and delaying purchase. It took only 30 years to kill IBM, I guess that's about the lifespan of VW. Mercedes is the german company I'd bet on. They have a clue. I have yet to see any car company other than Tesla describe a vision for the future of transportation.
axhoaxho
Member
Does anyone know who makes the battery for the Porsche Taycan? Or Volkswagen AG has its own battery factory like the Tesla Gigafactory?
The parents aren't just open. They have a poison pill in them. If you use them you have to open your parents to everyone for EV use.
I've read this sentiment several times on TMC....please explain where you think it says that in their patent pledge. I just don't see it. There is one section that says IF Tesla transfers the patent (aka sells it, Tesla get's bought, etc.) that the transfeee cannot change these terms, and so on to anyone further on down the line. That is NOT a poison pill that if you use Tesla patent A, your patent B must also be opened. Just don't see that in this language.
Also, it says if you use a Tesla patent, and try to sue Tesla for infringement then the pledge is off and Tesla can counter sue for the use of the patent in "bad faith". Essentially, the use of Tesla's patents for "free" expires if you sue them. In such cases the normal Patent licensing between both parties would be required.
Once again, it says nothing about letting everyone else use your patents.
Privacy & Legal | Tesla
It is right in there that you quotes:
So if you asset any patent right against a third party for using one of your EV related patents you can't use Tesla's patents.
Hmm...okay, I see where you are coming from now.
My take on that line was if you try to use patents to block EV technology, such as buying up the rights to NiMH and then not allowing EV's to use them.
But I can see where your reading comes from as well.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Find this whole Taycan "killer" thing as a bit of a farce.
Taycan is simply a blatant copy of Tesla design and technology.
They use the same type of electric motors, one in front for front drive and one in rear for rear wheel drive.
They use the same skateboard (but with foot garages
They use the same display, but with an optional one for the passenger?
Pretty much stole all the Tesla design, but added a unnecessary 2 speed transmission...on the rear wheels only.
Use the same Lithium Ion batteries.
Use the same regeneration technology.
Pretty much copied everything successful about the innovative Tesla.
Tied their entire marketing to frame it as a better handling track car. Last thing most any owner has complained about Tesla is poor handling and performance.
I wish them well, but believe this new Taycan does little to advance the development of EV personal transportation.
When Tesla took their Plaid prototype to the ring, it seemed like a bigger dog peeing on the little dog's tree.
Compared to Tesla the Taycan has poor efficiency, poor range, poor charging options, is overweight and lacks OTA updates.(think they may actually have this, but uncertain)
Porsche is going after offering a better driving experience, while Tesla is going after a car that can drive itself. Which has the better future?
Taycan is simply a blatant copy of Tesla design and technology.
They use the same type of electric motors, one in front for front drive and one in rear for rear wheel drive.
They use the same skateboard (but with foot garages
They use the same display, but with an optional one for the passenger?
Pretty much stole all the Tesla design, but added a unnecessary 2 speed transmission...on the rear wheels only.
Use the same Lithium Ion batteries.
Use the same regeneration technology.
Pretty much copied everything successful about the innovative Tesla.
Tied their entire marketing to frame it as a better handling track car. Last thing most any owner has complained about Tesla is poor handling and performance.
I wish them well, but believe this new Taycan does little to advance the development of EV personal transportation.
When Tesla took their Plaid prototype to the ring, it seemed like a bigger dog peeing on the little dog's tree.
Compared to Tesla the Taycan has poor efficiency, poor range, poor charging options, is overweight and lacks OTA updates.(think they may actually have this, but uncertain)
Porsche is going after offering a better driving experience, while Tesla is going after a car that can drive itself. Which has the better future?
Careful about saying Tesla has better range. Wider tyres and bigger air intakes and more aero will definitely decrease range, I suspect quite a LOT of range.
Hopefully still better than Taycan but you’ll have to wait and see...
This whole ‘Ring thing is SO much fun to watch play out- Tesla has pretty much shocked everyone watching with their performance so far!
Hopefully still better than Taycan but you’ll have to wait and see...
This whole ‘Ring thing is SO much fun to watch play out- Tesla has pretty much shocked everyone watching with their performance so far!
