Tesla is losing me

[bob_p]

I've been responsible for large complex software/hardware systems - and also responsible for quick-time-to-market solutions with a .com (when changes were released in hours or days).

It is possible to develop high quality software - on aggressive schedules - and avoid the types of obvious design flaws and bugs that sometimes get missed with Tesla's development & testing process.

Broader testing and providing owners more flexibility on the specific software in their vehicles would be good first steps.

Though Tesla probably also needs to do a re-assessment of their design process, since some of the changes that get into the final release probably should never have been implemented in the first place (such as removing time-of-day from the console display in V7 and removing the first letter scroll bar for media player lists in V8).

These issues are correctable - if/when Tesla's leadership (Musk) decides software quality is a priority. And with their goal of rapidly increasing AutoPilot functionality and moving to Full Self Driving - they probably shouldn't wait much longer to put a better software process in place...

 

[P100D_Me]

These issues are correctable - if/when Tesla's leadership (Musk) decides software quality is a priority. And with their goal of rapidly increasing AutoPilot functionality and moving to Full Self Driving - they probably shouldn't wait much longer to put a better software process in place...

That is the concerning part for me too, I have never turned on AP in my car. I see these 'AP freak out' posts which scare me, I see lack of software testing before releases for the MCU. I hope the MCU software team are in a different building to the driveline / AP team, releasing software that annoys people because of issues (the MCU) is a different story to something that could kill people if it has a glitch (AP).
A public software quality assurance program would really help them, there is no better way to find strange bugs and software errors than put it in the hands of end users (as we clearly see with all these rants after a software update), the problem is at the moment we are all beta testers and the SC is the feedback mechanism, crazy arrangement.

 

[hill]

Fans of any manufacturer will overlook lots of things if the car is still what they think it is. It's not just a Tesla thing.

Tesla's got (y)our money - & they're the only game in town. So it sorta is deal w/ it - or not. Could be worse ... yellow MCU boarder - ghosting windshield - ½shaft shudder or all 3 ... or you buen gas w/ less power.
.

 

[mattack4000]

I have more problem with the people working on the front line for them than the software folks. You can’t get anything done right now.

 

[gnuarm]

I got the update the other day, and I don't see the fart app. Hmmm.... maybe someone is listening... I'm just sayin'.

 

[xyeahtony]

That is the concerning part for me too, I have never turned on AP in my car. I see these 'AP freak out' posts which scare me, I see lack of software testing before releases for the MCU. I hope the MCU software team are in a different building to the driveline / AP team, releasing software that annoys people because of issues (the MCU) is a different story to something that could kill people if it has a glitch (AP).
A public software quality assurance program would really help them, there is no better way to find strange bugs and software errors than put it in the hands of end users (as we clearly see with all these rants after a software update), the problem is at the moment we are all beta testers and the SC is the feedback mechanism, crazy arrangement.

U see the AP freakout posts and worry but all the overwhelming posts on how AP works and is useful doesn’t seem to weigh on you? Interesting.

Funny how people ignore the 99% good and focus on the 1% bad. Sort of like anti-vaxxers i suppose. The government has already released a report years ago saying you’re less likely to be involved in a collision with autosteer.

 

[NoirMS]

I got the update the other day, and I don't see the fart app. Hmmm.... maybe someone is listening... I'm just sayin'.

Got the download at 8:13am this morning... fart app is still there....unfortunately.

 

[Gwgan]

Stealthp3d, please consider that the OP has been an enthusiastic member here for 5 years. If he is considering moving away from Tesla that means something in terms of the company’s success. Only game in town now but not for much longer.
Also, Model 3 has had new features with every update but early Model X and S have just received more awkward interface changes.

 

[roblab]

Stealthp3d, please consider that the OP has been an enthusiastic member here for 5 years. If he is considering moving away from Tesla that means something in terms of the company’s success. Only game in town now but not for much longer.
Also, Model 3 has had new features with every update but early Model X and S have just received more awkward interface changes.

And I've been an enthusiastic Tesla owner for six years. It amazes me how some owners, much less forum members, complain of little things, like pick pick picking to make an excuse for not liking their car. Prime example: "The fart app is still there." I've never seen it, and I've never opened it, and it doesn't interfere with my driving, so what's the problem? Looks like some Tesla engineers have kids, or still enjoy life themselves.

My first thought is that if someone doesn't like how Tesla has engineered their car, or how Tesla has priced their car, or how Tesla paints their car, even, why, head on down the road to the Nissan Dealer or Toyota or Ford.

People have been saying "Tesla's going to go out of business, just as soon as (insert some other company) starts building electrics." It's been six years, and Tesla's still the "only game in town" in spite of the fact that they have continually stated their goal is to help move other car makers to electric, even to offering their patents. They don't want to compete.

If anyone is considering moving away from Tesla, that's fine, that's OK. There's a bunch of people yet who have not driven Tesla who will want cars that have been "rejected". If Tesla doesn't want to do things like all the other car makers, that also means something in terms of the company's success.

 

[mattack4000]

Wait till your car is sitting at the body shop waiting for a bumper or fender for 3 months because they can’t get their act together

 

[WarpedOne]

Everyone is free to buy a better car.

Good luck finding one.

 

[svp6]

Everyone is free to buy a better car.

Good luck finding one.

There are a lot of better cars - just not electric ones yet. Agree the "Tesla killers" are nowhere to be found in 2018, but the gap is getting smaller. Tesla needs to update their game in terms of communications (imho biggest issue from a consumer standpoint), quality and refinement. Car exterior design and acceleration are top notch, but the rest has to improve as competition grows.

 

[xyeahtony]

Stealthp3d, please consider that the OP has been an enthusiastic member here for 5 years. If he is considering moving away from Tesla that means something in terms of the company’s success. Only game in town now but not for much longer.
Also, Model 3 has had new features with every update but early Model X and S have just received more awkward interface changes.

There is no direct competitor to Tesla and there aren't any viable ones for a long time. The closest one is the Porsche Taycan, and that's not a mass-market everyday driver car like the Model 3. The I-Pace has less efficency and less range than a Model X 75 and lacks a fast charging network. The Nissan Leaf has batteries that degrade in under 5 years. The Chevy Volt has been abandoned by GM, the Bolt is only sold in certain states and theres a waitlist in Canada because GM isn't interested in producing a large quantity of the vehicles. So lets not kid ourselves, Tesla is riding solo for the foreseeable future in EVs. And they have a massive lead.

And I've been an enthusiastic Tesla owner for six years. It amazes me how some owners, much less forum members, complain of little things, like pick pick picking to make an excuse for not liking their car. Prime example: "The fart app is still there." I've never seen it, and I've never opened it, and it doesn't interfere with my driving, so what's the problem? Looks like some Tesla engineers have kids, or still enjoy life themselves.

BINGO. Don't like the fart app, don't use it. lol. Not sure how it interferes with the daily operation of the car? Some people just like to whine incessantly.

There are a lot of better cars - just not electric ones yet. Agree the "Tesla killers" are nowhere to be found in 2018, but the gap is getting smaller. Tesla needs to update their game in terms of communications (imho biggest issue from a consumer standpoint), quality and refinement. Car exterior design and acceleration are top notch, but the rest has to improve as competition grows.

Why is this such a big deal for some people? once you receive your car, who the freak cares?

And for the record, my DS always replied to my emails within 24 hours or voicemails on the same day. Anytime my car has been in a service center (only twice in 3 years), they've kept me up to date with constant text communication directly with the people working on the car.

 

[svp6]

There is no direct competitor to Tesla and there aren't any viable ones for a long time. The closest one is the Porsche Taycan, and that's not a mass-market everyday driver car like the Model 3. The I-Pace has less efficency and less range than a Model X 75 and lacks a fast charging network. The Nissan Leaf has batteries that degrade in under 5 years. The Chevy Volt has been abandoned by GM, the Bolt is only sold in certain states and theres a waitlist in Canada because GM isn't interested in producing a large quantity of the vehicles. So lets not kid ourselves, Tesla is riding solo for the foreseeable future in EVs. And they have a massive lead.

Why is this such a big deal for some people? once you receive your car, who the freak cares?

And for the record, my DS always replied to my emails within 24 hours or voicemails on the same day. Anytime my car has been in a service center (only twice in 3 years).

There are a number of inaccuracies in your post, you may want to check your facts.

As I said above, there is no "Tesla-Killer" yet. At same time, the competition is not enjoying Tesla eating their lunch, and are working on it. I am not so sure about the massive lead you are talking about - we all need to fast forward few years to see if the gaps remains constant or not. I would argue that the first attempts at EVs from Jaguar, Audi and Merc, Kia / Hyundai are better executed than the first model S were in the early days. There is catch-up to do, but perhaps less than you make of it. And I am sure the range of their first EVs will slowly go up as they refine the drivetrain.

Of course Taycan is not for the masses - neither is model S. Somehow I have the feeling that some model S owners will go back to other manufacturers once there is something to cross-shop. Last time I went to my Tesla SC / store (only one in MN), they looked overwhelmed with deliveries, and I was simply ignored. It's OK, I can understand that, but it does not make you feel loved or welcome. This, the interior quality, and the communications issues are the main reason why I have a deposit on a Taycan rather than on a model S to replace my car when the lease expires. Our current model 3 is great, but if the Audi etron GT was available today I would consider it a strong competitor.

Just FYI, since August 2017 Bolt is offered in al US states. The fact that it did not sell as well as expected is another story. Tesla understood that the car needs first performance rather than cheap entry price - GM does not get it yet.

I am glad you had a good DS - this was not my case, he seemed clueless of my order when he called me. Communications matter - wait until you actually need to get something done, last time I was on hold 45 minutes. Local people are great, but it is very difficult to get to them, unless you are willing to drive the 80 miles to the service center.... Phones usually default to a mailbox, which does not seem well monitored.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Stealthp3d, please consider that the OP has been an enthusiastic member here for 5 years. If he is considering moving away from Tesla that means something in terms of the company’s success. Only game in town now but not for much longer.
Also, Model 3 has had new features with every update but early Model X and S have just received more awkward interface changes.

Exactly. As the OP, I didn't mean to predict doom and gloom for Tesla. I still own a bunch of Tesla stock and will hold it for a little while yet. The software, though, is a sore spot. It isn't well done, never was, and has actually gotten worse over the years in some ways for Model S/X owners. The actual new functionality has come from hardware that isn't upgradeable.

Anyways, now that the CCS charging network (especially in CA where I live) has gotten pretty good, there is now nothing tying me to Tesla. I will absolutely look at new EVs when they hit the market. I did take a cursory look at the Jaguar I-Pace, and yeah, it ain't a Model S. Not sure what the point is of that vehicle. But I will take a hard look at the Porsche Taycan, and the Rivian vehicles. I still have a reservation for a Roadster 2, but maybe I'll defer the reservation if I don't need it right away, or maybe the Taycan will be good enough and I'll cancel the Roadster 2. None of this spells trouble for Tesla - the EV market is growing and Tesla will continue selling tons of EVs even with successful new entrants.

And maybe, just maybe, the increased competition will force Tesla to clean up their game a bit.

 

[David99]

This isn't about the company in general. The OP pointed out some valid flaws in the software and bigs that should have been caught in normal quality control. Owning a Model S for 5 years I have similar experiences. So many bugs and issues with the software. Bugs gets into every release but Tesla has been notorious for not fixing them or just doing a poor job at quality control.
I have had my dash screen lock up every day for over a year and Tesla suggested to me to buy a new MCU. A recent update made it much worse and finally Tesla tackled it. The issue with the garage opener covering over the backup camera, broken media player are even simple things to fix.

Pointing out these issues is totally valid. Responses like 'if you don't like Tesla feel free to buy something else' is just totally missing the point.

 

[gnuarm]

U see the AP freakout posts and worry but all the overwhelming posts on how AP works and is useful doesn’t seem to weigh on you? Interesting.

Funny how people ignore the 99% good and focus on the 1% bad. Sort of like anti-vaxxers i suppose. The government has already released a report years ago saying you’re less likely to be involved in a collision with autosteer.

That's an interesting thought. Ignore anything bad as long as it is a small minority. I have been trying auto pilot myself mostly very cautiously by keeping a close eye on it. I have personally had experiences where I think it could have wrecked the car had I not intervened. It also doesn't seem to be very good about dealing with other people's mistakes like large trucks creeping over the lane dividing line. Just tonight I used the turn signal to change lanes into a pretty long exit ramp and unlike many roads where it will slow on curves, this time it seemed headed for the sharp exit ramp curve at full speed and I had to intervene.

Auto pilot is definitely not ready to be left off a very short leash. Some people won't want to deal with that. Why is that hard to accept and acknowledge?

 

[gnuarm]

Got the download at 8:13am this morning... fart app is still there....unfortunately.View attachment 363786

I got the app this morning when it after completing the download last night. I think this was two inside of a week, no?

I tried it on a friend I thought might think it was funny. I couldn't get it to trigger on him sitting down. Isn't it supposed to do that?

I did try the Christmas app and it impressed some friends. It's a lot more limited than the real thing, but interesting anyway.

 

[gnuarm]

Stealthp3d, please consider that the OP has been an enthusiastic member here for 5 years. If he is considering moving away from Tesla that means something in terms of the company’s success. Only game in town now but not for much longer.
Also, Model 3 has had new features with every update but early Model X and S have just received more awkward interface changes.

Which UI changes did you find awkward? I was a bit annoyed at first because I've not had my car too long and now I had to learn a new interface. But it actually grew on me quickly feeling easier to use. I guess some of the controls are a bit less convenient like some have complained about the temperature controls. I think it was an overall improvement. I'd like to hear what others think was a step backwards.

 

[gnuarm]

And I've been an enthusiastic Tesla owner for six years. It amazes me how some owners, much less forum members, complain of little things, like pick pick picking to make an excuse for not liking their car. Prime example: "The fart app is still there." I've never seen it, and I've never opened it, and it doesn't interfere with my driving, so what's the problem? Looks like some Tesla engineers have kids, or still enjoy life themselves.

My first thought is that if someone doesn't like how Tesla has engineered their car, or how Tesla has priced their car, or how Tesla paints their car, even, why, head on down the road to the Nissan Dealer or Toyota or Ford.

Amurica, love it or leave it! Why is that even a response??? People aren't allowed to have things about this car they dislike along with the things they like? I hate the center console. It is the most useless thing I've seen in a car since the wing vents in my '63 Chevy II... no, even though they let people break into the car, they had a use when there is no air conditioning.

Why does that disqualify me from liking the instant acceleration and the nice ride and the even handling? Oh, and I don't like the vibration I get when flooring the accelerator in Ludicrous mode which I suppose I'm going to have to get fixed along with the many other issues. Does that mean I should sell the car and get a Corolla?

People have been saying "Tesla's going to go out of business, just as soon as (insert some other company) starts building electrics." It's been six years, and Tesla's still the "only game in town" in spite of the fact that they have continually stated their goal is to help move other car makers to electric, even to offering their patents. They don't want to compete.

Oh, they want to compete. But they are going to compete on their terms. You talk about Tesla's "six" whole years in the business while many of these companies have been in business for nearly six score years! Tesla only shows up on the automotive radar because Elon Musk tweets about "funding secured" and loses his position as chairman of the board.

I've never said Tesla will go out of business, period. I've said if they don't pay attention to what is most important, the charging, in a way that continues to put them head and shoulders above the pack, they will have a much harder time competing with the big iron simply because big iron is in a much better position to design cars that appeal to mainstream buyers, open factories without risking going under, providing service to every small town and providing support to the masses of owners of a new product. Not six years, six score of years.

Tesla has never said anything about helping "move other car makers to electric". The mission statement was "accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible." Now it is "Tesla’s mission is to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy." Where does it say anything about making the other companies successful?

If anyone is considering moving away from Tesla, that's fine, that's OK. There's a bunch of people yet who have not driven Tesla who will want cars that have been "rejected". If Tesla doesn't want to do things like all the other car makers, that also means something in terms of the company's success.

Yep, the Royal Nonesuch. I don't think that is what is happening here. I think there is a huge attraction to the idea of all electric vehicles. This is very new after all. But there are still many rough edges to the implementation of EVs in general and these cars are only a single incarnation of what EVs can be, so of course they won't perfectly fit all buyer's expectations. At some point when the other companies have multiple models, each one in production facilities that can build several times as many cars per day as Tesla ships across their product lines, then we will see what Tesla can do when there is competition. I'm not saying they will fail. But no one can be sure they will succeed.