There's a photo of one of the robobank conversions on another thread, that has a sticker on the face limiting charge on the HPC to 32 amps following the conversion.
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Tesla/J1772 adapter available from Tesla's website
- Thread starter dsm363
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tomsax
Member
A number of HPCs were installed on 40A circuits originally, and so had to be limited to 32A charging (80% of the breaker rating for continuous load).
In fact, they weren't limited in firmware, so Roadsters owners would pull up, start a charge and pop the breaker. Those signs were put on to warn drivers to manually limit their charge to 32A until the firmware could be updated. Both the stickers and the firmware updates were orchestrated by Tom Dowling, saving those chargers from being useless, perpetually disabled by a blown breaker in a locked panel.
Tom has also been doing the conversion to J cables, paid for with grant money, using only the 75A J connectors on all of the units regardless of circuit limits. Whether you like the J conversion or not, I'm grateful that we have someone from the EV community (an EAA member, but not a Roadster owner) implementing the grant and preserving the value of those chargers for us minority Roadster owners.
The Electric Auto Association and Plug In America have been doing great work preserving and maintaining charging infrastructure, educating public officials, and lobbying for tax incentives that have saved all of us in the US thousands of dollars. Something to think about when writing checks to your favorite charities each year.
Full disclosure: I'm an EAA member supporting two chapters, SEVA and NEDRA, and I'm on the Plug In America board of directors.
I don't really understand why they didn't just leave the existing HPC's alone and work to have new J1772 systems mounted alongside... that would have been a lot more useful and a lot less confusing in my opinion
I have an early US HPC that includes a rotary switch that sets the current available from the charger... has this functionality been removed from the current HPC's?
who made the decision to 'upgrade' the HPC's to J1772? Was this discussed with the EV user community on forums such as TMC?
tomsax
Member
I don't really understand why they didn't just leave the existing HPC's alone and work to have new J1772 systems mounted alongside... that would have been a lot more useful and a lot less confusing in my opinion
Welcome to the fringe minority, driving our legacy electric vehicles with their incompatible charge plugs.
The stations being converted weren't really put in for us, it just happened that the Roadster was the only game in town and some forward-thinking people wanted to show their support for EVs before there were mass market vehicles or an official charging standard. Now Roadsters are outnumbered, and will soon be wildly outnumbered, by cars using the now standard plugs.
Tesla's refusal to give us an upgrade path for our cars, or support a third-party option, is the cause of this mess. Their adapter is a functional, but clumsy, workaround.
tomsax
Member
Yes, that convenience was removed when Tesla switched to the Clipper Creek units in early 2009. The ease of changing the amp limit was a barrier to UL approval, too easy to have someone mess it up. Of course the reality is exactly the opposite: because changing the amp limit requires reprogramming the unit, not something an installer can do, they end up less safe when someone hooks a 70A-configured unit to a 40A circuit and has no way to fix it.
Standard plugs that charge cars like the Leaf at 16A because that's all they support today.... seems to me this is a giant leap backwards. Much better to have left the HPC with the Roadster connector to demonstrate what a real Level 2 infrastructure can deliver.
That's odd... I'm sure my unit has a UL sticker on it... will take a look in the garage.
tomsax
Member
Standard US plugs only supply 120V/12A continuous load, or about 5 miles of range per hour of charging. A Leaf can draw 240V/15A and charge at 12 miles per hour from a Level 2 station. A Roadster can still charge at 70A, we just have to use an adapter (or replace the obsolete proprietary Tesla inlet). Everyone wins.
Picture it from their point of view: the bank paid to install charging. A customer rolls up in a LEAF, Volt, Focus, iMiev, or Model S and complains the charger doesn't work, it has the wrong plug. The bank manager says, "oh, you don't drive a Tesla Roadster that costs $109,000 and is no longer made, you can just plug into this standard outlet, thanks for your business."
To fix this problem, do they pay $300 to replace the proprietary plug with a standard plug that can still be used by Tesla drivers, or pay $5,000 to install another charging station?
At least they waited until Telsa Roadsters were outnumbered by LEAFs and Volts before making the swap.
With all the new iPhone charge station finder apps, I have been driving the Leaf around to noted locations around the SF bay area, and finding such an assortment of large paddle, small paddle, Avcon, Tesla, etc. It is hard to know how much this "legacy" equipment gets used, and if they will all be converted to J1772 or not.
Just as an example, take a look at this relic I saw when going to the Recargo location called "Cable and Wireless" in Santa Clara:
(EdisonEV branded EVSE.)
I doubt anyone uses it anymore. It is in a very out of the way place behind a closed business.
Who owns it? Is it just abandoned?
Could there be a remaining S10EV driving still using it?
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IMO it would have been much better to have worked with the site to install another Charging Station and wait until the Roadster socket is truly obsolete. I'm not seeing any kick back from sites to the idea of installing more Charging Stations.
The 'upgrade' approach forces Roadster owners to carry the J1772 adapter which is clearly unsuitable for use in public locations when you consider theft, etc.
I repeat my questions from earlier.... who made the decision to 'upgrade' the HPC's to J1772? Was this discussed with the EV user community and on forums such as TMC?
For the upgrades along I-80 (SanFrancisco to Sacramento) -- and also possibly San Ramon -- it was a requirement, because the Tesla stations had been put in place by PG&E using grant money from CARB. For the 101 corridor (SanFrancisco to LosAngeles) I don't have complete information; however, I have heard that RaboBank was not actually the outfit that paid for the Tesla stations (in at least one (but probably more, possibly all) location(s). What's most confusing ... is that those installs were paid for by SolarCity (note the tight relationship with TM) ... RaboBank (or in some cases ? the property owner/manager) simply agreed to provide the "real-estate" for the spot. It is rumored that RaboBank customer requests is what convinced RaboBank to lobby for an "upgrade" to J-1772. The I-5 corridor remains Tesla compatible (Coalinga to Yreka).
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
Did you (or anybody else) ever get to try a Coulomb Chargepoint? The rest of this thread either doesn't name a charger, or names a different one.
I got my adapter last week (and Tesla says my car, #690 already has the latest firmware from a visit two weeks ago). I tried it with my Dad's Blink charger; that worked fine. Then today I took it to Redmond City Hall to try out their Chargepoint stations. On both of them, the EVSE said there was a GFI fault, and the car said that line voltage was lost.
I tried setting the car to only pull 24A, just in case. Didn't help.
I thought this problem had been reported before--in fact, wasn't this the one that Tesla fixed in firmware? But I have the latest firmware...is anybody having luck with Chargepoints?
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SByer
'08 #383
Yes, my '08 with the latest '08 firmware and the adapter handled the ChargePoint at 30A just fine. I only tried it that once, since most of the time there are (currently) more Leafs and Volts than ChargePoints at work. I think because of the significant charging changes between the '08s and the '10s, the charging firmware subroutines are probably completely different, so it's hard to say if that means anything other than for '08s.
Finally decided to head over to a Chargepoint location and see if it worked. I have the latest firmware (I think) at 3.6.1. It seemed to work fine although I only charged for 5 min, just long enough to see if it would work. It charged at 30A.
What's the proper sequence for connecting the adapter and then stopping the charge? I swiped the card, the connected the adapter to the Chargepoint cable, then connected it to the Roadster.
When I stopped, I clicked 'stop charging' inside the Roadster then disconnected the cable from the Roadster (then removed the adapter from the Chargepoint cable). I then got a text message saying my charge had been interrupted. Glad to know it's at least an option now, although a slow one. I really wish it went to 40 or even 70A.
What's the proper sequence for connecting the adapter and then stopping the charge? I swiped the card, the connected the adapter to the Chargepoint cable, then connected it to the Roadster.
When I stopped, I clicked 'stop charging' inside the Roadster then disconnected the cable from the Roadster (then removed the adapter from the Chargepoint cable). I then got a text message saying my charge had been interrupted. Glad to know it's at least an option now, although a slow one. I really wish it went to 40 or even 70A.
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smorgasbord
Active Member
Received my J1772 Adapter today!
Order placed online: June 3, 2011
Adapter received: June 27, 2011
Other than price, the biggest downside is when traveling, my trunk will be filled with cables and adapters:
1 - UMC with NEMA 14-50 adapter
1 - J1772 Adapter
1 - Home-made NEMA 14-30 plug to NEMA 14-50 outlet
1 - Home-made NEMA 10-30 plug to NEMA 14-50 outlet
1 - "Spare" Mobile Connector (120V)
1 - 120v "cube" (to provide clearance for the spare mobile connector's right angle plug to fit into ChargePoint stations)'
It's quite a bundle, but looks like they'll all fit in the provided bag. Definitely bigger and heavier than the soft top.
Order placed online: June 3, 2011
Adapter received: June 27, 2011
Other than price, the biggest downside is when traveling, my trunk will be filled with cables and adapters:
1 - UMC with NEMA 14-50 adapter
1 - J1772 Adapter
1 - Home-made NEMA 14-30 plug to NEMA 14-50 outlet
1 - Home-made NEMA 10-30 plug to NEMA 14-50 outlet
1 - "Spare" Mobile Connector (120V)
1 - 120v "cube" (to provide clearance for the spare mobile connector's right angle plug to fit into ChargePoint stations)'
It's quite a bundle, but looks like they'll all fit in the provided bag. Definitely bigger and heavier than the soft top.
For my 2008, I was advised that a firmware update to 3.6.7.11 was needed to work with the Aerovironment chargers that Nissan uses. I did get that update, and I did successfully test charging at a Nissan dealer.
Regarding storage, I determined that I can fit the J1772 cable under the front bonnet in the section just below the windshield where the brake master cylinder and the heater controller sit. There was enough room for one connector on each side, and the cord threading across. I used some thick foam as padding between the connector and the components underneath. I had to resort to this non-completely-kosher storage because we're on a road trip with the trunk packed full.
Regarding storage, I determined that I can fit the J1772 cable under the front bonnet in the section just below the windshield where the brake master cylinder and the heater controller sit. There was enough room for one connector on each side, and the cord threading across. I used some thick foam as padding between the connector and the components underneath. I had to resort to this non-completely-kosher storage because we're on a road trip with the trunk packed full.
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