Tesla Model 3 Battery Warranty Includes 70% Retention Guarantee

[Electroman]

When Tesla says 70%, then they must clarify 70% of what?

Do they mean the range displayed in the screen at 100% charge compared to the rated range at 100% charge when new? How does an end user know how much the degradation is?

- So if the SR is rated 220 when new, then it can degrade to 154 miles (Leaf 2.0 territory) as displayed on the dash?

- For LR with 310 miles that would be 217 miles which is close to SR range when new.

 

[dhanson865]

Except that we know that bar #1 and bar #2 do not follow the 24 kWh model recipe, so there is little basis to presume that the 4rth bar will be the same as the 24 kWh model.

To quote that old joke: who's "we", kemosabe?

I just spent several hours reading hundreds of pages (thousands of posts) at mynissanleaf.com to find confirmation of this "known fact". The best I could find was an unsubstantiated claim that "According to someone with access to the shop manuals you will drop the fourth bar at 63%" in a thread about the 30 kWh leaf.

I haven't see that shop manual. I haven't seen a screenshot, a cell phone photo, not even a halfway believable data table in text form that would give me something to hang on to if I just wanted to believe.

Does the 30 kWh drop at a different rate than the 24 kWh, Yes, absolutely.

Are the bars weighted differently? Who knows? I want to see Nissan documentation.

I see no proof and a lot of theories. They can't all be right.

 

[Electroman]

i don't know about 30 kWh but the 24 kWh bars are definitely weighted differently. And I know that based on the GID meter which accurately tells you how much energy the systems thinks it has. I had written down the max Gids when the first bar was lost, then the 2nd and the 3rd in my 2012 Leaf.

If my memory serves me right, it was almost like 20%, then 7% and then 7% for the first 3 bars. Started at 281 Gids and was 224 Gids when the first bar was lost, then 205 Gids for the next bar.

 

[dhanson865]

i don't know about 30 kWh but the 24 kWh bars are definitely weighted differently. And I know that based on the GID meter which accurately tells you how much energy the systems thinks it has. I had written down the max Gids when the first bar was lost, then the 2nd and the 3rd in my 2012 Leaf.

If my memory serves me right, it was almost like 20%, then 7% and then 7% for the first 3 bars. Started at 281 Gids and was 224 Gids when the first bar was lost, then 205 Gids for the next bar.

You seem to have missed post #25 where I specify the exact bar amounts for the 24 kWh pack. Post #25

as taken from Nissan LEAF Service Manual, page MWI-23

Thus for the 24 kWh pack it is 15% then 6.25% several times then finally 16.25% in the bottom not covered by a bar.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Yes, but the table of battery capacity bars was removed on service manuals of newer Leafs (later than model year 2011) and AFAIK, never reappeared. AFAIK, Nissan never explained why. So, we don't really know.

Also, the language in the US warranty booklet of the '13+ (first year to have have language in the warranty booklet of a capacity warranty since the '11 and '12 originally shipped with none) Leaf and every single year after that I've looked at does NOT give any sort of mapping as to how many bars = how many % capacity remaining or that 8 bars = 70%, 66.25% or anything like that. It only uses verbiage like the below

LITHIUM-ION BATTERY CAPACITY COVERAGE
In addition to the lithium-ion Battery Coverage for
defects in materials or workmanship, the lithiumion
battery is also warranted against capacity loss
below nine bars of capacity as shown on the
vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge for a period
of 60 months or 60,000 miles, for vehicles
equipped with the 24 kWh battery or 96 months or
100,000 miles for vehicles equipped with the 30
kWh battery, whichever comes first.
This warranty covers any repairs needed to return
battery capacity to a level of nine remaining bars
on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge. If
possible, the lithium-ion battery components will
be repaired or replaced, and the original lithiumion
battery will be returned to the vehicle. If necessary,
the lithium-ion battery will be replaced with
either a new or remanufactured lithium-ion battery.
Any repair or replacement made under this
Lithium-Ion Battery Capacity Coverage may not
return your lithium-ion battery to an “as new” condition
with all 12 battery capacity bars, but it will
provide the vehicle with a capacity level of nine
bars or more on the battery capacity level gauge.

When the capacity warranty was announced in Jun 2013 at Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 LEAF - My Nissan Leaf Forum, they did say

In addition to the existing lithium-ion battery coverage provided under the Nissan Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty for defects in materials or workmanship, the lithium-ion battery for your 2011 or 2012 Nissan LEAF is now also warranted against capacity loss below nine (9) bars (or approximately below 70 percent) as shown on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge for a period of 60 months or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Sure, people can make inferences based upon SOH values from Leaf Spy, but AFAIK, Nissan has NEVER released any public documentation on any values on the CAN bus nor acknowledged them.

Turbo3 (author of Leaf Spy) posted LEAF CANbus decoding. (Open discussion) - Page 34 - My Nissan Leaf Forum

I have finally added the SOH value to Leaf Spy Pro (0x5B3 D2). I have also kept the old "Health" value but renamed to "Hx". The percent capacity based on AHr is now gone as it was too confusing with all the different initial values for AHrs with different Leaf model years/firmware updates.

So, we've had 2 "health"-type values since 2013. Previously, there was just "Hlth" that he renamed Hx.

Is it remaining battery capacity? Maybe. How accurate is it? Dunno. Are there certain preconditions that need to be met for it to be accurate/more accurate? Or, are there things that will make it inaccurate? Who knows?

To recap for Leaf, US capacity warranty is to warrant loss below 9 visible capacity bars (out of 12) for:
24 kWh batteries (all '11 to '15, most '16 S): 5 years/60K miles, whichever comes first
30 kWh batteries ('16 and SL, '16 "S 30", all '17): 8 years/100K miles, whichever comes first

And, for those curious, of the 30 kWh Leafs (which began with model year '16 on the SV and SL trims), I know of at least 4 or 5 4 bar losers already (buried in 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses - My Nissan Leaf Forum). The 30 kWh battery seems to be a high/higher temperature degradation disaster, so far. Unless its a case of a bad batch/batches, it seems to be a step backwards from the model year '15 "lizard" battery.

 

[cwerdna]

Nissan referenced " about 70% battery capacity" as a threshold for warranty replacement in the 2012 (I think) user manual but has since erased all mention of a specific number.

It was never mentioned in the '12 Leaf manual. Capacity warranty didn't exist at the time the '12 Leaf was shipping.

You will not find it in https://owners.nissanusa.com/conten...ides/LEAF/2012/2012-LEAF-warranty-booklet.pdf. You will find it in https://owners.nissanusa.com/conten...ides/LEAF/2013/2013-LEAF-warranty-booklet.pdf. Search for bars.

Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 LEAF - My Nissan Leaf Forum was the 1st mention, AFAIK of "about 70%"

So I don't stretch this post too long, I'll get to the business of the day. Back in December, Jeff posted a message from Andy Palmer (Nissan LEAF Update from Andy Palmer - My Nissan Leaf Forum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false outlining the expanded warranty protection against capacity loss in the LEAF's lithium-ion battery. In that message, they said that the warranty would go into effect this Spring for 2011 and 2012 LEAF owners. Today, I want to give you an update on that roll-out.
If you're a 2011 or 2012 LEAF owner, you'll receive a letter in the mail in the coming week or so confirming the expanded warranty coverage for your LEAF, as well as details on a software update available through your Nissan LEAF dealer for your battery capacity meter and on-board charger. I've pasted the text of that letter below for you to check out. As you are some of our most engaged owners, we wanted to give you a heads-up on this development.
(Note: For 2013 LEAF owners, this coverage was part of your battery warranty at purchase, and is outlined in your warranty information booklet.)
...

EXPANDED WARRANTY COVERAGE

In addition to the existing lithium-ion battery coverage provided under the Nissan Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty for defects in materials or workmanship, the lithium-ion battery for your 2011 or 2012 Nissan LEAF is now also warranted against capacity loss below nine (9) bars (or approximately below 70 percent) as shown on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge for a period of 60 months or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first.

But yes, there was the table in the '11 service manual that dhanson mentioned that folks have duplicated at Battery - Electric Vehicle Wiki.

I also do wonder if all '13 Leaf warranty booklets prior to BBrockman's post on June 2013 contained the capacity warranty or if there's actually an earlier revision of the '13 warranty booklet w/o it.

The capacity warranty came out partially (or completely?) due to the Klee class action lawsuit settlement.

 

[vickh]

so is there a degradation risk in buying a CPO 2015 MS 70 if the driver constantly charged it to 0-100% ..