Failed (2nd) battery 700 miles out of warranty.

[Regaj]

You've mentioned a number of times having "issues" with your battery prior to the warranty expiration. But nowhere have you provided any insight into what those were. If your conversations with the Tesla Service people were as vague as you've been here in this thread, I'm not surprised you've had difficulties.

I'm truly sorry you had two HV battery failures. That you would have two such failures in ~100,000 miles would certainly give any of us pause. And it raises an obvious question of if there was some underlying component common to both failures.

But outright pack failure happens for very specific reasons - and is usually accompanied by one or more very explicit error codes. As do serious "issues."

I once had a six-week-old vehicle - a BMW - replaced under my state's Lemon Law statute. So I'm very familiar with how things can go sideways in spite of a manufacturer's best intentions, and the long, uphill climb that often must be trodden in order to make things right. But facts - documented, provable facts - are what make the difference once you march into that landscape.

Simply offering up vague, general complaints won't get you there. And grasping at red herring arguments like incorrect odometer readings doesn't help your case.

Best of luck.

 

[MOE J]

There are no known "odometer issues." I don't know what you're talking about on that one.

As for the battery failure, I presume you're talking about the 12-volt battery, not the main, high voltage battery. 12-volt batteries aren't infallible. Sometimes you can get 5+ years out of them and other times you only get a couple of years out of them. I don't think the 12-volt batteries that Tesla uses are any better or worse than what other manufacturers use. It's $100 - replace it and move on.

If you're actually talking about your main high voltage battery, please clarify.

$100 is good deal

 

[MOE J]

And if u got 100,000 miles with little problems, I say u got yr moneys worth. Gas cars after a 100k are no better

 

[cmontoy]

You've mentioned a number of times having "issues" with your battery prior to the warranty expiration. But nowhere have you provided any insight into what those were. If your conversations with the Tesla Service people were as vague as you've been here in this thread, I'm not surprised you've had difficulties.

I'm truly sorry you had two HV battery failures. That you would have two such failures in ~100,000 miles would certainly give any of us pause. And it raises an obvious question of if there was some underlying component common to both failures.

But outright pack failure happens for very specific reasons - and is usually accompanied by one or more very explicit error codes. As do serious "issues."

I once had a six-week-old vehicle - a BMW - replaced under my state's Lemon Law statute. So I'm very familiar with how things can go sideways in spite of a manufacturer's best intentions, and the long, uphill climb that often must be trodden in order to make things right. But facts - documented, provable facts - are what make the difference once you march into that landscape.

Simply offering up vague, general complaints won't get you there. And grasping at red herring arguments like incorrect odometer readings doesn't help your case.

Best of luck.

Specific issues were not correctly supercharging, massive battery drainage while driving, but also while parked. Specifically in one case I parked with 20% battery and 1 hour later it was at 3%, had issues achieving correct voltage while charging on a 220, and on one occasion when I was driving to a super charger during a trip, the car shut off claiming there was not enough power to complete the trip out of no where with percentage still shown on remaining battery. All this was relayed to tesla during a service back in August and I was told there was nothing wrong and it was just a cabin air filter. They also deleted all the service requests related to the battery since nothing was found and no service was done. I was also just told today that they don’t have an information from August on what was actually tested in relation to the battery as they only go back 90 days nor do they have any information on the original service request including the deleted items, despite the fact that I was able to pull messages and showed them I had these concerns with the battery.

 

[cmontoy]

In order to get a battery replaced under warranty, its rated range (capacity) must drop below 30% of new OR the car must be non-functional OR have some sort of terminal error. Based on the limited information you've provided, it sounds like none of these things were true, hence Tesla saying the battery was fine. At some point, a deteriorating condition will get to the point that one of these things becomes true - in your case, the terminal error. Without knowing the specific error codes, it's hard to say exactly what's wrong with your battery pack.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't work for Tesla. The information in this post is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Where did you get that information from? I don’t see it in their actual warranty document they simply say they will cover any battery that requires repair but then also goes on to say that they have the sole discretion on deciding what qualifies as needed a repair. Which your information makes sense on situations in where I don’t see them being able to argue against needing repair but I can’t find anything that actually sets out guidelines on what is or isn’t considered to qualify as “needed a repair”

 

[zoomer0056]

Specific issues were not correctly supercharging

Sorry, but that's not specific at all. I still think this story is suspect.

 

[MOE J]

Any device (AC/Heater) uses power aka eats up range. Upcoming update will reduce vampire drain by 40% when using sentry mode.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Any device (AC/Heater) uses power aka eats up range. Upcoming update will reduce vampire drain by 40% when using sentry mode.

To be fair, not 17% in one hour. Something is clearly defective if that happens. That said, such a claim would need to be well documented.

 

[nicksp]

And if u got 100,000 miles with little problems, I say u got yr moneys worth. Gas cars after a 100k are no better

Can't agree with this. He's onto his second battery. Which means 1 battery per 50k miles. That's definitely not good.
Also I've had at least 3 ICE cars that ran fine in the very high 100s.

 

[brkaus]

Any device (AC/Heater) uses power aka eats up range. Upcoming update will reduce vampire drain by 40% when using sentry mode.

*may*

 

[cmontoy]

Any device (AC/Heater) uses power aka eats up range. Upcoming update will reduce vampire drain by 40% when using sentry mode.

Sentry mode is supposed to cut off at 20%

 

[cmontoy]

Can't agree with this. He's onto his second battery. Which means 1 battery per 50k miles. That's definitely not good.
Also I've had at least 3 ICE cars that ran fine in the very high 100s.

Ya I told the service manager that I’m more upset about this being battery #2 then barely out of warranty

 

[cmontoy]

Sorry, but that's not specific at all. I still think this story is suspect.

Specific issues supercharging refer to the fact that I was unable to get the supercharger to put out more then 15kw-30kw max when the battery was less then 15%. I initially thought it was the station itself but I tried multiple superchargers and even went to another station in town to no luck. I eventually just waited till I was able to get enough to get home. I also reported this to Tesla during the August service, with specifics, and I was told that they couldn’t find anything wrong. Which again has been their consistent answer.

 

[jay1122]

Poor OP, it is just purely bad luck if you ask me. With 2 battery packs failing. Some other components may not run properly and cause battery to fail prematurely. It is just terribly bad luck to happen right after your warranty is 700m past the cut off line. The problems before total failure is probably the early warning signs. Unfortunately, to these service center people, they need a big fat hard notice and fault code to appear in the car in order to repair. Your only bet is to be at the mercy of the tesla and argue the problem existed before the warranty cutoff. If it is denied, you are simply out of luck. Arguing about inaccurate odometer is just child's play. Accept it and move on, sell it as is for scrap and never buy Tesla again.

 

[cmontoy]

Poor OP, it is just purely bad luck if you ask me. With 2 battery packs failing. Some other components may not run properly and cause battery to fail prematurely. It is just terribly bad luck to happen right after your warranty is 700m past the cut off line. The problems before total failure is probably the early warning signs. Unfortunately, to these service center people, they need a big fat hard notice and fault code to appear in the car in order to repair. Your only bet is to be at the mercy of the tesla and argue the problem existed before the warranty cutoff. If it is denied, you are simply out of luck. Arguing about inaccurate odometer is just child's play. Accept it and move on, sell it as is for scrap and never buy Tesla again.

In terms of odometer my goal was to get this on the record. They deleted a lot of the past service requests I made including this, and with Hondas lawsuit recently and settlement I wanted to get this down for when that comes up in the future. I agree with what you said about the earlier warning signs and teslas approach to “everything is perfect until it brakes” is my frustration. I am talking to a shop now to see if they are willing and able to look at the battery and determine if there were any faults or diagnostics that can be done to determine that timeline of the issue. Teslas whole “sorry out of warranty should have called sooner” is mute especially if it can be proven issues existed before hand. They will still fight this as their warrant states it’s up to them to decide but as with the other lawsuits they have settled recently they will do anything to release their data that is used by them to arrive at their conclusions.

 

[Arctic_Fox]

I feel the pain. Bought used 2014 MS P85D 10 days out of warranty, 10 days later a shorted battery (U018 etc) 14K replacement cost, despite evidence that the car was getting BMS errors before I even bought it, but was not displaying to "Customer Facing" error messages. I believe these warning signs are easily hidden until after warranties expire.

Tesla isn't wrong saying these can fail at any moment, they are immensely complex. 30% of material is rejected in manufacturing these batteries, they pick the trade off engineering them to fit that calendar and milage window. Reality is, 12K-20K to replace a battery that would have cost 500K-999K in the early 2000s is a bargain. As battery technology advances, evidenced by Microsoft's and US Dept of Energy solid state research supercharged by AI we will see higher endurance, but only if regulators can leverage the industry. Sure, 1 million mile battery is possible, but not in a for profit system, or a company that can engineer cheaper batteries at the cost of longevity.

Maybe our batteries would last 1 million miles if it was a 200KWH pack that could some how maintain 20-30C temp forever, and never heat cycle with a 30%-55% discharge cycling, or vibration... What if the pack wasn't bolted directly to the car it is, and floated and had it's own suspension? Probably considered, but to expensive to manufacture?

I digress. I'm still angry at Tesla and the Dealer, but I still bought a new M3P because I didn't want to put 14K into an 8 year old car, and it cost me only 18K more to buy a new car. Tesla and other industries know this, and will gladly sell us a new car than actually make one last as long as the CEO says it will. Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

 

[Rocky_H]

Bought used 2014 MS [...] Tesla and other industries know this, and will gladly sell us a new car than actually make one last as long as the CEO says it will. Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Well, hang on. I see people mash together these two separate things all too often, pretending they happened at the same time.

The battery cells generally could last a really really long time. It was bad design decisions in the early packaging construction that let water leak in and corrode them into failing early.
So it was several years later that Musk started talking about newer battery types being able to last 300K to 500K miles, which might very well be true, once they discovered those early mistakes and corrected them.

 

[Arctic_Fox]

Well, hang on. I see people mash together these two separate things all too often, pretending they happened at the same time.

The battery cells generally could last a really really long time. It was bad design decisions in the early packaging construction that let water leak in and corrode them into failing early.
So it was several years later that Musk started talking about newer battery types being able to last 300K to 500K miles, which might very well be true, once they discovered those early mistakes and corrected them.

You are correct. Later 21700 cells, and the referb but with new cells was the 3rd gen version so likely a huge improvement. I'll remember this thread when my 23 M3P pack dies out of warranty in 7 years

 

[cmontoy]

I feel the pain. Bought used 2014 MS P85D 10 days out of warranty, 10 days later a shorted battery (U018 etc) 14K replacement cost, despite evidence that the car was getting BMS errors before I even bought it, but was not displaying to "Customer Facing" error messages. I believe these warning signs are easily hidden until after warranties expire.

Tesla isn't wrong saying these can fail at any moment, they are immensely complex. 30% of material is rejected in manufacturing these batteries, they pick the trade off engineering them to fit that calendar and milage window. Reality is, 12K-20K to replace a battery that would have cost 500K-999K in the early 2000s is a bargain. As battery technology advances, evidenced by Microsoft's and US Dept of Energy solid state research supercharged by AI we will see higher endurance, but only if regulators can leverage the industry. Sure, 1 million mile battery is possible, but not in a for profit system, or a company that can engineer cheaper batteries at the cost of longevity.

Maybe our batteries would last 1 million miles if it was a 200KWH pack that could some how maintain 20-30C temp forever, and never heat cycle with a 30%-55% discharge cycling, or vibration... What if the pack wasn't bolted directly to the car it is, and floated and had it's own suspension? Probably considered, but to expensive to manufacture?

I digress. I'm still angry at Tesla and the Dealer, but I still bought a new M3P because I didn't want to put 14K into an 8 year old car, and it cost me only 18K more to buy a new car. Tesla and other industries know this, and will gladly sell us a new car than actually make one last as long as the CEO says it will. Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

I 100% see this as a class action one day like don’t get me wrong they do their research and there is a reason they pick 100,000 but you go to California which has laws that state batteries need to be warrantied for longer and you still see them fail right after warranty. I don’t think Tesla by any means is causing the batteries to fail but to say there isn’t some coding that causes customer notification of issues or even in service appointments that battery failure is more likely to ping an error. That’s what makes it frustrating is you are entirely dependent on them for anything. You can’t just go in and see if a spark plug is bad, Tesla gets to tell you when your battery isn’t working regardless of what you noticed as the drive.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I 100% see this as a class action one day like don’t get me wrong they do their research and there is a reason they pick 100,000 but you go to California which has laws that state batteries need to be warrantied for longer and you still see them fail right after warranty. I don’t think Tesla by any means is causing the batteries to fail but to say there isn’t some coding that causes customer notification of issues or even in service appointments that battery failure is more likely to ping an error. That’s what makes it frustrating is you are entirely dependent on them for anything. You can’t just go in and see if a spark plug is bad, Tesla gets to tell you when your battery isn’t working regardless of what you noticed as the drive.

California's requirement even to 2026 and beyond is 8 years / 100k miles (only the percentage changes form 70% to 75%). A lot of people confuse the requirement with the hybrid/PZEV requirement, which is longer, but does not apply to BEVs.

(3) Battery Warranty. The vehicle manufacturer of each battery electric vehicle and plug-in hybrid electric vehicle shall warrant to the ultimate purchaser and each subsequent purchaser that the vehicle's battery is free from defects in materials and workmanship which cause the battery state of health, as described in CCR, title 13, section 1962.5(c)(4)(A)4.c. and d., to deteriorate to less than 70% for a warranty period of eight years or 100,000 miles, whichever first occurs, for 2026 through 2030 model years, and 75% for a warranty period of eight years or 100,000 miles, whichever first occurs, for 2031 and subsequent model years.

Section 1962.8 - Warranty Requirements for Zero-Emission and Batteries in Plug-in Hybrid Electric 2026 and Subsequent Model Year Passenger Cars and Light-Duty Trucks, Cal. Code Regs. tit. 13 § 1962.8 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Section 1962.8 - Warranty Requirements for Zero-Emission and Batteries in Plug-in Hybrid Electric 2026 and Subsequent Model Year Passenger Cars and Light-Duty Trucks, Cal. Code Regs. tit. 13 § 1962.8, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

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