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They are still trying to get car orders in and out for their employees so really no rush, although I'm sure all of us non-employees would like to sit and test drive one. We got to see two down in Seaside at a Tesla event during the Monterey Car Week so at least have a good idea of them in person, and seeing them in person convinced me to want to place a reservation for one as our second car. Still want the test drive to get a feel for the drive and seating (very important to be comfortable) and interior overall.
We spoke to our OA where we placed our M3 order and he said not that long ago they had a car brought to them so they could at least see the car before placing their orders. He has an MS so wasn't going to be ordering but given this ordering phase is all Tesla-related companies involved getting through the list of employees could take some time depending on whether they want the current production trim package. Given how people who see the car may be like me and want to place a reservation, with so many reservations out there right now Tesla may feel it's better not to promote the car in showrooms yet when delivering one is still far off for many. It is exciting to "catch" one on the road (saw first one a week or so ago) or charging at a Supercharger and the rarity right now kind of adds to the excitement.
We spoke to our OA where we placed our M3 order and he said not that long ago they had a car brought to them so they could at least see the car before placing their orders. He has an MS so wasn't going to be ordering but given this ordering phase is all Tesla-related companies involved getting through the list of employees could take some time depending on whether they want the current production trim package. Given how people who see the car may be like me and want to place a reservation, with so many reservations out there right now Tesla may feel it's better not to promote the car in showrooms yet when delivering one is still far off for many. It is exciting to "catch" one on the road (saw first one a week or so ago) or charging at a Supercharger and the rarity right now kind of adds to the excitement.
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Reservations are not sales. I know the diehard fans here feel everybody will be eager to spend 50 to 60 thousand dollars on a car where we don't even know some of the details of, much less having even seen in person or driven, but I'm not convinced. Putting down a refundable $1000 is totally different than actually spending $50,000. Remember that the vast majority of those people don't even know the information we've gleaned on this forum. Don't you imagine some are even a bit nervous about only having the center instrument panel or want to see how large the trunk is.
Sure. But for most people dropping a $1000 deposit is a big deal. I expect the majority of those reservations are going to convert. Can't tell you if it's going to be 50% or 90%, but it'll be a good chunk.
I'm sure most of them will convert, because I believe that Tesla will provide cars to see and drive. I'm not so sure it would be the same if Tesla says, "Yes, we're building cars, trust us, and they'll be great, but we just don't want to show them to you. Sign here and give us your money. Don't you like surprises?"
It's all speculation - I'm sure there are plenty of people who will buy the first production version sight unseen simply because there are so many reservation holders. But I would say that the vast majority of people will want a test drive before spending $50K, and even with a very long line you don't want to anger reservation holders who rightfully want/deserve a test drive. I know I'm buying this car, but I am starting to get a little put off by the seemingly intentional lack of information about future versions. I need to have some idea what the performance version will cost and how much quicker it will accelerate before I commit to buying the first production version which has more bells and whistles than I want or need. But without any real #'s about cost, performance, or availability on the P version, how do I know if I want it or can even afford it? I have to assume the tax credit will be gone or greatly reduced by the time it's available, but again the lack of information clouds this. The popularity of the car combined with Tesla's relative silence means I can't make anywhere near an informed decision about what version is best for me. I don't want to whine because I'm sure I will be getting a great value no matter what, but roughly $50K is a ton of money to me, and it would be nice to know I'm spending my money on the options I actually want. I understand that Tesla wants sales now rather than later, but they might be able to make more money off customers like me a year from now vs. making less profit sooner. So it seems to benefit Tesla and a large chunk of their customers to give us more information than they're sharing now. I just think it breeds more loyalty to allow the customer to feel like their personal needs are important vs. the attitude of "Dear customer - this is what we're offering now. We value your business, but not enough that we are willing to inform you about options that you'll probably like more and will be available soon. Sorry about that, but you should just be happy with whatever we're kind enough to offer now". Again I don't want to sound ungrateful, I just believe that if they knew the base model was going to cost $35K 18 months ago, they must also know how much future options will cost.
I should clarify when I said "it's a small subset". Not all reservation holders will be affected. In fact, I don't think most will be affected. Why? Because I fully expect there to be test drive (or at least showroom) models eventually. As soon as the worst of the ramp up is over, I can see them allocate out demo cars. So say, they get them around the beginning of 2018 (or a bit earlier). Due to the S-Curve of the ramp up, Tesla can't deliver that many anyways (thus, the small subset). If a very early reservation holder needs a test drive, they can delay their order until they can check one out. Shouldn't affect their tax credit at all.
I find your argument compelling -- when you've been asked to configure, i.e. when that decision is needed. Until non-employees are asked to configure, I feel this angst is premature.
Tesla likely will only stock show rooms with Model 3s a mere weeks before reservation holders for that area are invited to configure.
One alternative is to make test drives available to reservation holders, outside the show room environment, perhaps by appointment, a driver will go to you instead. Or rotate a small number of M3s between showrooms serving areas that will be invited to configure first.
Tesla could really use a massive MS+MX delivery boost in parallel with M3 production hell. It would be very helpful to achieve profitability which would support continuing investment on the Tesla Semi, Model Y, 2nd/3rd GF, solar roof and so on, without having to borrow more money.
I wouldn't be surprise that even if no M3's are available for test drives, Tesla might open up for orders from west coast customers and obtain tens of thousands of firm orders in a matter of 2 weeks, enough to keep actual firm order flow above available production and wait until 2018 before showrooms are stocked with M3.
All Tesla needs is around 10k reservation to order conversions for a few months.
One alternative is to make test drives available to reservation holders, outside the show room environment, perhaps by appointment, a driver will go to you instead. Or rotate a small number of M3s between showrooms serving areas that will be invited to configure first.
Tesla could really use a massive MS+MX delivery boost in parallel with M3 production hell. It would be very helpful to achieve profitability which would support continuing investment on the Tesla Semi, Model Y, 2nd/3rd GF, solar roof and so on, without having to borrow more money.
I wouldn't be surprise that even if no M3's are available for test drives, Tesla might open up for orders from west coast customers and obtain tens of thousands of firm orders in a matter of 2 weeks, enough to keep actual firm order flow above available production and wait until 2018 before showrooms are stocked with M3.
All Tesla needs is around 10k reservation to order conversions for a few months.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
Unless they've opened up ordering of any model 3 for you, what commitment are you making? Neither the non-Performance and Performance variants are open to ordering yet.
I think you can count on this happening. With the Model X they had a traveling roadshow on an invitation-to-reservationholders basis. I'm confident we'll see the same for Model 3, at least early in the ramp when they are just beginning to invite non-employees to configure.
Setting aside the "Tesla's not asking you, yet" (which I pointed out in my earlier post), I think the point was "I may want Perf and/or AWD, but I don't want to be forced to defer -- or feel pressured into not deferring -- without knowing what I'm really choosing between."
I beleive they are trying to get as many Model 3's on the road so they can get feedback incase things need to be adjusted or modified.
I also believe that the Model 3 with the new interior and battery range would effect sales of MS models.
Lets hope there is a model S refresh at least with battery range and hopefully interior sooner then later.
The BMW 5 series is bigger then the model s but it is also has a more upmarket interior etc.
I also believe that the Model 3 with the new interior and battery range would effect sales of MS models.
Lets hope there is a model S refresh at least with battery range and hopefully interior sooner then later.
The BMW 5 series is bigger then the model s but it is also has a more upmarket interior etc.
AlanSqB
Dog Chauffeur
Count me among the people who will be ticked off if they start getting showroom models before I get mine. Same goes for wide release of non-PUP and SR. I'd be ok with a roadshow, but just barely.
I'm sitting here with a fist full of cash, ready to buy the top-of-the-line "first production" build. Nothing should get in the way of me getting my car except Tesla and Space X employees, and those who live west of me ordering the same or higher options. I have a Dec-Feb range and I darned sure want my car in December if it's at all possible.
I'm sitting here with a fist full of cash, ready to buy the top-of-the-line "first production" build. Nothing should get in the way of me getting my car except Tesla and Space X employees, and those who live west of me ordering the same or higher options. I have a Dec-Feb range and I darned sure want my car in December if it's at all possible.
So your really going to ticked off if they take one day to produce some cars so people can see them in person. Really? They are planning to build 20,000 cars in December. Whether or not they build a few test drive cars will have zero noticeable impact on when you get your car.
I'm not the guy you're replying to, but I'm kinda in the same boat as him. I'd much, MUCH rather take delivery on 12/31 than 1/1. The odds aren't in my favor for a December delivery in the first place (while I'm local, I reserved online at like 9pm, I'm not an employee, and I'm not an owner), so I'm reallllllllly hoping for anything that'll improve my chances even if those things aren't as good for other people. Yes, it's selfish, but other people getting to do test drives before they decide doesn't do much to improve my 2017 tax liability…
am I going to be *upset* if I just barely miss a 2017 delivery? I'll be too busy being thrilled that I'm getting the car. But a few months later when I'm transferring money to the IRS, I'll be a little cranky.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
Kinda hard with the set aside statement, but I guess the the choices are between "a car I can't buy yet" and "a car I can't buy yet"
Sorry, couldn't resist. I guess I just have less angst than others (even when I waited for delivery of my S).
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
Why battery range? The S 100D goes further than the Model 3 Long Range and S 75D goes further than the Model 3 Standard Range. So what change would they make on the S in terms of battery range? Now interior, I'm all for them to bring some of the accouterments of the 3 to the S.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
One must remember that the federal rebate is a non-refundable credit (if you owe less than $7,500 in Federal taxes [regardless of what you've already paid in], you don't get the full credit), so members like run-the-joules may not have the right liability in 2018. For instance, some people who are close to being subjected to AMT manage their tax liability so in odd years they have AMT and even years they don't (or vice versa). In such a case, delivery date could make a huge difference.
Now, this is a more esoteric case (though not far-fetched), but I still can understand why someone would be a bit tiffed if showroom cars delayed their delivery into 2018.
That said, I personally believe that the Model 3 will be in some showrooms before December (Charlotte is anticipating end of October), though whether one can test drive them I don't know.
*ding*
To be entirely fair, the car never really figured into my tax planning, but once the idea was there and the seed was planted, I realized a 2017 delivery is hugely advantageous to me… If I take delivery in 2017 I still have to write a figurative check to the IRS, but it'll be a much less annoying one. If I take delivery in 2018, I'm going to have to figure out what effect (if any) the vehicle credit has on my AMT carryover and Xenu only knows what else.
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