Tesla now RENTS solar panels

[miimura]

I can't for the life of me figure how how these systems will work, until you have onsite battery storage at least the size of your car battery? unless I can charge my whole battery at home overnight, these systems don't seem to make much sense? paying .13 per kwh, and modeling tens of thousands to avoid that, just doesn't pencil?

I am confused by your confusion. What are you trying to do? Are you talking about a vehicle battery or stationary home battery? The cost effectiveness of solar depends a lot on your utility, their prices and their rules. Solar usually makes sense to people in terms of avoiding utility bills. In California, our utility prices are high and we have net metering so solar is a no-brainer if you have a single family home with sun exposure.

If you explain your situation and what you're trying to accomplish, we can help you sort it out.

 

[Ampster]

Tesla could just just leave the panels installed and Tesla could continue collecting power production credits from the utility company.

Unless Tesla installs a separate meter I don't know how they would do that? Without a separate meter the homeowner's load would be offset by the solar. We shall see what the actual agreement looks like.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Unless Tesla installs a separate meter I don't know how they would do that? Without a separate meter the homeowner's load would be offset by the solar. We shall see what the actual agreement looks like.

Don't all installs have two meters? When I got solar installed, the utility company put in two meters. One meter is for the solar production and one is for the household consumption/generation. I now have two accounts with my utility company, one for each meter. Tesla could keep the solar production meter in their name and the homeowner could receive credits on their bill based upon the linked meter at the same address.

 

[miimura]

Don't all installs have two meters? When I got solar installed, the utility company put in two meters. One meter is for the solar production and one is for the household consumption/generation. I now have two accounts with my utility company, one for each meter. Tesla could keep the solar production meter in their name and the homeowner could receive credits on their bill based upon the linked meter at the same address.

I've never heard of a utility in California doing that. We have one bidirectional smart meter. The utility can only see the net energy that enters or leaves the premises.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I've never heard of a utility in California doing that. We have one bidirectional smart meter. The utility can only see the net energy that enters or leaves the premises.

Interesting. Our main household meter is a bidirectional smart meter. The other meter is a smart meter too but I doubt it is bidirectional. Having the two meters (and two accounts) allows them to separate our production from our usage. I thought Tesla did all installs that way, but I guess not! A neighbor a couple blocks away has two meters and got his system from another company. He went for the "no money down" option and entered into a solar power purchase agreement with them. I'll ask him and see how they would handle it if he decided he didn't want to buy energy from them anymore.

I wonder if Tesla will start doing installs with multiple meters in California and other states as well. How long ago did you get your system install?

 

[The Karelian]

I'm about to acquire property in SRP area of the Phoenix Valley & would like to install solar ASAP. Do I need to call SRP first, or will installers know what all the rules are? Who do I call in the area for the Tesla panel rental answers?

 

[woferry]

Interesting. Our main household meter is a bidirectional smart meter. The other meter is a smart meter too but I doubt it is bidirectional. Having the two meters (and two accounts) allows them to separate our production from our usage. I thought they did all installs that way, but I guess not!

I would expect anything like a solar lease to work that way, since they need to separate what the panels produced vs. what you consumed (the Gateway can measure this if you have a Powerwall, but I don't think it counts as revenue-grade, IIRC that was a feature of the Gateway 2). But if you straight-up own the system there doesn't seem to be any benefit in installing another meter, the house will take whatever power it needs and the rest goes out to the grid, and nobody should care.

A neighbor of my parents' in PA has a Vivint system on their roof, and that has the separate production meter since they now pay Vivint for their power, not PECO. But my system in CA is just the original grid meter, didn't even need to replace it when the solar was added, as when PG&E did the SmartMeter replacement years ago they put in bi-directional meters.

 

[miimura]

Interesting. Our main household meter is a bidirectional smart meter. The other meter is a smart meter too but I doubt it is bidirectional. Having the two meters (and two accounts) allows them to separate our production from our usage. I thought Tesla did all installs that way, but I guess not! A neighbor a couple blocks away has two meters and got his system from another company. He went for the "no money down" option and entered into a solar power purchase agreement with them. I'll ask him and see how they would handle it if he decided he didn't want to buy energy from them anymore.

I wonder if Tesla will start doing installs with multiple meters in California and other states as well. How long ago did you get your system install?

Metering rules are inherently a utility thing. However, I am somewhat dubious of a utility that demands production metering because it can lead to "nefarious" stuff like what has been documented by @nwdiver in New Mexico where they charge you for energy you produced even if you self-consumed it in real time and it never went to the grid at all.

If you have a PPA, there clearly needs to be a source for production data. However, it does not have to be a utility meter, it can be a different kind of production meter. I have a Enphase based system and they do have Revenue Grade metering solutions that could be used for PPA accounting. Since I purchased my system, I only have the basic Enphase monitoring system.

 

[SageBrush]

I spoke with a Tesla Energy Advisor today.

1. $50 per 3.8 kW of panels per month. Tesla reserves the right to increase the monthly charge
2. There is no contract length so the $1500 dismantling fee comes into play at any time in the future, including when the panels are old and decrepit
3. Flat roofs in the western states that have a 'torch' covering are accommodated with a ZEP system. No other flat roofs for now

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Metering rules are inherently a utility thing. However, I am somewhat dubious of a utility that demands production metering because it can lead to "nefarious" stuff like what has been documented by @nwdiver in New Mexico where they charge you for energy you produced even if you self-consumed it in real time and it never went to the grid at all.

If you have a PPA, there clearly needs to be a source for production data. However, it does not have to be a utility meter, it can be a different kind of production meter. I have a Enphase based system and they do have Revenue Grade metering solutions that could be used for PPA accounting. Since I purchased my system, I only have the basic Enphase monitoring system.

We purchased our system as well. Perhaps the two meters is an Xcel Energy requirement.

I did find this on Xcel's website:

When you use the sun’s power to generate electricity, the amount you produce and use varies throughout the year. In some months, you may produce more than you need, so there’s energy left over. And other months, you’ll use more energy than you produce. We use net and production meters to keep track of this give and take.

The net meter moves forward when electricity flows from our grid into your home or business, and backward when electricity flows from your PV system onto our grid. This bi-directional energy flow measures and distinguishes kilowatt-hours (kWh) being taken from the grid (used) and being put on the grid (produced). We read this information on a monthly basis:
• If you produce more electricity than you use, you’re considered a “net producer” and you won’t be billed for any kWh during that billing cycle. Any excess kWh are stored in your Solar Bank for future use. (Refer to Solar Bank information on page two.)
• If you use more than you produce, you’ll be billed for the difference (net kWh).

The production meter is a standard meter that’s set up for payment of Renewable Energy Credits (RECs) rather than for billing. It’s used to calculate your monthly REC payments.

So I guess that explains why we have a separate meter...to track Renewable Energy Credits.

Fortunately we don't have to pay for the energy we produce. That's insane!

 

[nwdiver]

Metering rules are inherently a utility thing. However, I am somewhat dubious of a utility that demands production metering because it can lead to "nefarious" stuff like what has been documented by @nwdiver in New Mexico where they charge you for energy you produced even if you self-consumed it in real time and it never went to the grid at all.

If you have a PPA, there clearly needs to be a source for production data. However, it does not have to be a utility meter, it can be a different kind of production meter. I have a Enphase based system and they do have Revenue Grade metering solutions that could be used for PPA accounting. Since I purchased my system, I only have the basic Enphase monitoring system.

Sadly the lack of a production meter doesn't stop them from charging what's effectively the same type of fee. Worse even in some ways since a capacity fee is independent of generation AND consumption. Alabama Power charges $5/kW/mo. If you have a 4kW system and it's cloudy... $20. You're on vacation and didn't use any energy... $20. The system was off-line for XYZ reason... $20.


To Some Solar Users, Power Company Fees Are An Unfair Charge

Stay vigilant

 

[miimura]

So I guess that explains why we have a separate meter...to track Renewable Energy Credits.

How much are your RECs worth? In some areas they are significant.

 

[Jae001]

I just signed up for Tesla's Solar rental program. I am in CA and the electricity rates are out of control here. Tier 1 is: 0.17 per kWh, Tier 2 is: 0.22 and Tier 3 is 0.30. My last bill just for electricity was $880 for a two month period. I will keep everyone updated on the install and how it works out. I got the large system at 11.4 kW.

 

[Chancellor32]

I'm about to acquire property in SRP area of the Phoenix Valley & would like to install solar ASAP. Do I need to call SRP first, or will installers know what all the rules are? Who do I call in the area for the Tesla panel rental answers?

SRP isn’t approved for Tesla rentals at this time. Best to look into purchasing. I just activated my system in SRP area 3 weeks ago.

 

[nwdiver]

I just signed up for Tesla's Solar rental program. I am in CA and the electricity rates are out of control here. Tier 1 is: 0.17 per kWh, Tier 2 is: 0.22 and Tier 3 is 0.30. My last bill just for electricity was $880 for a two month period. I will keep everyone updated on the install and how it works out. I got the large system at 11.4 kW.

Just curious... why do you prefer to rent as opposed to a lease or purchase?

 

[Ampster]

How long ago did you get your system install?

My latest installation was this March of 2019. I have several others that were installed beginning in 2012. I think it must depend on what part of the country that you live and the policies with each power company. There are plans like that in California and I am considering a commercial plan for EV charging with a separate meter but it is not very common. In addition to my own I have seen many installations in both Northern and Southern California.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

Anyone confirm I can activate and cancel and reactivate whenever I want? Like I said before this can be a good deal if you only activate in the summer or maybe 1/2 of the year and then cancel for the rest. Generate all the electricity you need for the year in the summer months and then save money on the winter months. Repeat and I think you can come out ahead compared to buying the system out right with all cash upfront.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Anyone confirm I can activate and cancel and reactivate whenever I want? Like I said before this can be a good deal if you only activate in the summer or maybe 1/2 of the year and then cancel for the rest. Generate all the electricity you need for the year in the summer months and then save money on the winter months. Repeat and I think you can come out ahead compared to buying the system out right with all cash upfront.

There is text saying you can reactivate but that they can't guarantee you would be able to get the same rate that you were paying previously. I don't think they would allow you to do that repeatedly.

 

[miimura]

There is text saying you can reactivate but that they can't guarantee you would be able to get the same rate that you were paying previously. I don't [think] they would allow you to do that repeatedly.

I agree. If you did this repeatedly, they should just raise the price so that the annual cost was the same. The solar equipment is a fixed cost that is dedicated to your use and it's only fair that you pay for it, hopefully uniformly.

 

[MOD220]

I am confused by your confusion. What are you trying to do? Are you talking about a vehicle battery or stationary home battery? The cost effectiveness of solar depends a lot on your utility, their prices and their rules. Solar usually makes sense to people in terms of avoiding utility bills. In California, our utility prices are high and we have net metering so solar is a no-brainer if you have a single family home with sun exposure.

If you explain your situation and what you're trying to accomplish, we can help you sort it out.

How old can you come home from work at 6 PM, plug in your car, and fully charge a empty 100 KWH battery unless you have on-site battery storage equal or greater to the size of your car battery?