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Tesla now RENTS solar panels

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#61
MOD220 said:
... can you come home from work at 6 PM, plug in your car, and fully charge a empty 100 KWH battery unless you have on-site battery storage equal or greater to the size of your car battery?
Click to expand...
Of course !

The Model 3 LR consumes about 87 kWh from the meter to fill the battery from empty to full. A 240 Volt, 60 Amp circuit charges at
0.8 * 240 * 60 = 11.5 kWh an hour.

That answers your question, but your scenario would be distinctly unusual since it presumes that the car is being used for ~ 300 miles most every day. Even so, It also would not phase the overwhelming fraction of Tesla owners if they could not manage a full charge by the time they want to use the car again for a 300+ mile trip since they would simply incorporate a little Supercharging into their day.

I may not be following your thought but it sounds like you have a deep misunderstanding of how EVs in general, and Tesla EVs specifically, are used.
 
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#62
SageBrush said:
Of course !

The Model 3 LR consumes about 87 kWh from the meter to fill the battery from empty to full. A 240 Volt, 60 Amp circuit charges at
0.8 * 240 * 60 = 11.5 kWh an hour.

That answers your question, but your scenario would be distinctly unusual since it presumes that the car is being used for ~ 300 miles most every day. Even so, It also would not phase the overwhelming fraction of Tesla owners if they could not manage a full charge by the time they want to use the car again for a 300+ mile trip since they would simply incorporate a little Supercharging into their day.

I may not be following your thought but it sounds like you have a deep misunderstanding of how EVs in general, and Tesla EVs specifically, are used.
Click to expand...

The point I’m making is I don’t see how going 100% off the grid Andy going solar, will ever be viable until we have on site storage with a large enough capacity to charge an EV battery completely if needed.
 
#63
MOD220 said:
The point I’m making is I don’t see how going 100% off the grid Andy going solar, will ever be viable until we have on site storage with a large enough capacity to charge an EV battery completely if needed.
Click to expand...
People aren't going 100% off the grid. They are still connected to the grid but offsetting their usage with solar. They use net metering to generate power during the day and send it back to the electric company. They use batteries to store some of that solar production. The batteries help the homeowner power their house, cars, etc. and to get the lowest cost from the utility company during off peak Time Of Use periods. The batteries also help the user if the grid goes down but if the grid goes down for a long time, people won't be charging their cars from 0 to 100% if they don't have sufficient household battery capacity. They would use battery power to keep the house running.

In the summer, my household might use 60 kWh on a typical day while I produce 120 kWh. The solar energy first recharges my batteries and powers my house and then the rest goes back to the grid to power my neighbors' houses. In the winter, I might still use 60 kWh but my system might only produce 40 kWh so I still rely on the grid. In an emergency, I might be able to go days or weeks with a grid outage but I won't be planning on charging our cars from 0 to 100% every day. I will be able to power everything else in my house indefinitely.
 
#64
MorrisonHiker said:
People aren't going 100% off the grid. They are still connected to the grid but offsetting their usage with solar. They use net metering to generate power during the day and send it back to the electric company. They use batteries to store some of that solar production. The batteries help the homeowner power their house, cars, etc. and to get the lowest cost from the utility company during off peak Time Of Use periods. The batteries also help the user if the grid goes down but if the grid goes down for a long time, people won't be charging their cars from 0 to 100% if they don't have sufficient household battery capacity. They would use battery power to keep the house running.

In the summer, my household might use 60 kWh on a typical day while I produce 120 kWh. The solar energy first recharges my batteries and powers my house and then the rest goes back to the grid to power my neighbors' houses. In the winter, I might still use 60 kWh but my system might only produce 40 kWh so I still rely on the grid. In an emergency, I might be able to go days or weeks with a grid outage but I won't be planning on charging our cars from 0 to 100% every day. I will be able to power everything else in my house indefinitely.
Click to expand...

What do you have for battery storage?
 
#66
MOD220 said:
What do you have for battery storage?
Click to expand...
Currently we currently have three Powerwalls which give us about 40 kWh of storage. We also have three Teslas with nearly 250 kWh of batteries between them. As you've noticed, there's no way to fully charge the cars with just the 40 kWh of batteries but we don't fully charge the cars every day. Each day we use about 10 kWh per car.

With the three Powerwalls, we could easily power the house for two+ days if there was an extended grid outage. Since we get sun over 300 days a year, we would typically have some solar energy production within a day or two which would allow us to recharge the Powerwalls and continue powering the house indefinitely. We have a roof rake that allows us to remove snow from most of our panels, if necessary. If we weren't getting a lot of sun then we would have to reduce our power usage accordingly if the grid was still down. If there was such a multi-day outage, we wouldn't be charging our cars every day as most likely the city would be shut down or operating in emergency mode and roads would be closed.

As an additional note, we put in as much solar as our utility company would allow. They actually prevent households from putting in as much solar as they would like. This prevents people from going off the grid. Honestly, I prefer to be on the grid and to be able to offset my usage as much as possible. In the summer, we're producing 200% of what we use...but by being on the grid, I'm able to send the excess to the grid for someone else to use. If we were off-grid, that extra production would go to waste or we'd have to find some other way of using it. The extra production earns us credits on our electric bill that we can then use in the winter when our production isn't as high. Currently, we've produced 90% of our consumption so far this year. We're close to being 100% self-sufficient but will need to add more solar to get there. In September, we'll contact the utility and see how much additional solar we will be allowed to add.
 
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#67
Big Dog said:
In SoCal, and Edison does have a rate plan for separate home meters. Had the price (to put my model 3's on a separate meter) quoted a few months ago, but did not pull the trigger.
Click to expand...
Yes, there are EV charging plans that require a separate meter in California. I was speaking specifically about production metering being required by a utility, which I have not heard of in California.
 
#69
MOD220 said:
The point I’m making is I don’t see how going 100% off the grid Andy going solar, will ever be viable until we have on site storage with a large enough capacity to charge an EV battery completely if needed.
Click to expand...

EV is mobile. You don't have to fully charge your EV every day at home. There are tons of public charging (including Superchargers) available nowadays.
 
#75
Why I am Hesitant to Try Tesla Solar Rental Program

1. The company offers basically no technical details about these "solar panels."
• Clearly they are not manufactured by Tesla. That's fine but it would be nice to know who is manufacturing them.
• There is no information at all on the Tesla website about these panels other than generic what-are-solar-panels filler content.

2. The company offers no information about who is doing the installation.
• New Mexico is listed as one of the very few states where the solar rental program is now available.
• I live in New Mexico.
• So far, so good!
• Tesla has zero presence in New Mexico, so it has to be a "partner."
• But who? Positive Energy Solar? No idea.
• There is nothing in the New Mexico media about which company/companies is/are the partners with Tesla.
• Why the secrecy?
• Why did Tesla pick New Mexico?

3. I cannot just pick up the damn phone and call Tesla and ask these simple questions.
• I can pick up the phone and easily connect with any local installer in New Mexico, they're happy to take the call.
• Tesla, being as customer-averse as it is when it comes to service for its cars, is a black hole when it comes to communications.

4. Oh, sure, they offer a fill-in-the-blanks web form to "request a callback."
• I have no confidence I will get a call back in a timely manner.
• I have 1000% confidence they will use my solar-inquiry contact information to send me emails for years to come in which they try to sell me cars and other stuff. They have always done this in the past. (I've always created custom Tesla Energy-related email addresses for solar and powerwall inquiries, and have never gotten a response related to powerwall or solar, but TONS of emails to those specific email addresses to try to sell me a 3, S, X, and Y.)

5. There is zero information about where these panels can and cannot be installed.
• Can they do a ground install (my preference)?
• Must it be a roof install (showstopper for me)?
• Why didn't Tesla state up front on its website this little detail?

6. Elon stated in a quarterly call earlier this year that 2019 is "the year of solar."
• It's almost September. Solar has been a dud so far. When does the "year" begin?

7. The Walmart lawsuit does not inspire confidence.
• It's still early and the suit might be brinksmanship on Walmart's part to get out of a deal, but the evidence in the complaint paints a pretty bad picture on Tesla's ability to do good, reliable, safe installation and maintenance work.
• Do I want to take a chance with a Tesla "partner" installer with my home? Can I afford a fire risk? No.

It's the accumulation of all these little things that make me not trust Tesla when it comes to solar. I don't think they're serious. I am looking for quotes on solar but I just don't trust Tesla to be there as a reliable business a month from now, a year from now, five years from now. I frankly still think it's likely that Tesla jettisons its whole consumer/residential solar business within the next 12-18 months.

Disagree all you want. I assume you all disagree, this being TMC after all. But that's what I think when it comes to Tesla Solar.
 
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#76
SureValla said:
I will not be in my home long enough to get a payoff for purchase. I do not want to worry about getting more money for my house if I leave sooner and I dont want to worry about transferring a lease to a new owner. Therefore rent is perfect. I am signed up.
Click to expand...

I'm in the exact same situation and just paid my $150 deposit. No idea if I will end up going through it, but I'm interested enough to see what they design, find out of my home is even suitable, and take the time to learn more. I hope I will be here in 10 years, but who knows. Solar Lease makes selling a nightmare. $1,500 to bail out of this any time I want seems reasonable enough without being a catastrophic amount of money.

Connecticut is in a weird spot where they have already tried to get rid of Net Metering and it appears (as far as I can tell) that it is safe until at least 2021. Knowing this, I definitely am unwilling to front ANY money on a purchase or lease that I will be stuck with. My interest and goals lie in a very modest potential savings and scratching my inner geek itch to get solar.
 
#77
timn,

I share many of these concerns, but wanted to relay my feedback from my limited experience of... this morning. I filled out the call back form at 10PM last night, and had a call from a Tesla rep by 11AM this morning. She also immediately emailed me with a few links so I had her direct phone number and email for any questions I might have. She was somewhat knowledgeable on the general program, but did give some vague answers.

Question: "What are the specific installation methods used (what kind of conduit will be run on my roof and down my siding, how will the conduits enter the house, etc"

Answer (paraphrasing): That all depends on the specific system they calculate and design, the engineer that does that design will be able to answer more.

Question: What is your opinion on the Net Metering situation in Connecticut?

Answer: We think it's stable for now, but there is always the possibility in the future that it goes away and we have no estimates at this time what the repercussions of that are.... but you always have the option of getting it removed. [reasonable response]

Question: I'm a big supporter of Tesla, but an honest concern is what happens if Tesla goes under in 10 years and I still have these panels?

Answer: Obviously we believe Tesla will remain successful, however if that situation arose we would expect the business would be maintained or otherwise taken over by another entity. [this seems reasonable and likely to me as well].

Question: The fact that the subscription price can arbitrarily change seems a little open ended, what's the deal?

Answer: It could go up OR down in the future depending on the market and other factors. It would not go up much, and it would not go down much either. Obviously we recognize that if you aren't saving money, you're not likely to keep the system installed. [this makes sense logically to me. I also feel like $1500 removal would barely cover Tesla's labor costs to get the equipment back and seal the roof penetrations... so I would think they really don't want to remove these if they can avoid it?]

Question: If I did cancel, do I immediately owe the $1500 removal fee?

Answer: No you would have some time and it could be multiple months until Tesla was ready to remove it. [I tried to press her on this and got a fairly wishy washy response. My gut feeling is that you could cancel and probably hold them off on charging for removal for a while if you were considering resubscribing].
 
#78
A friend of mine has also inquired this week about the rental option and got this emailed reply from the Tesla rep in regards to the subscription price changing in the future:

"We will let you know ahead of time if there is any changes. If you don't agree to the price increase then you would cancel. You can either leave it on your roof, and continue doing what you were doing with the electric provider, or the removal fee is $1500 to get the panels removed. You dont have to pay that, if you just leave them on your roof. Keep in mind your price can decrease as well. Our whole goal as a company is to make you save money and provide clean energy for your home. It wouldn't make sense to raise your prices to where you wouldn't be saving money. It would do no good for us for you to cancel. Elon Musk said it best himself, it's like having a money printer on your roof. Please let me know if you have any other questions."

That makes sense to me logically, but I wonder if the actual contract would reflect that policy.

I will be pressing the design engineer hard for information on:
Who precisely would be doing this installation?
What specific equipment would be installed (i.e. Delta or SolarEdge string inverter, etc)

I will be asking the rental sales rep for more information on:
What is my actual liability for these panels? What happens if they got damaged somehow by a storm (however unlikely)?
What maintenance am I required contractually to do and what should I do? (i.e. cleaning, snow removal, etc)
What happens if these short out and burn down my home?
 
#79
erikreynolds said:
A friend of mine has also inquired this week about the rental option and got this emailed reply from the Tesla rep in regards to the subscription price changing in the future:

"We will let you know ahead of time if there is any changes. If you don't agree to the price increase then you would cancel. You can either leave it on your roof, and continue doing what you were doing with the electric provider, or the removal fee is $1500 to get the panels removed. You dont have to pay that, if you just leave them on your roof. Keep in mind your price can decrease as well. Our whole goal as a company is to make you save money and provide clean energy for your home. It wouldn't make sense to raise your prices to where you wouldn't be saving money. It would do no good for us for you to cancel. Elon Musk said it best himself, it's like having a money printer on your roof. Please let me know if you have any other questions."
Click to expand...

I used to work in the satellite TV business. They used to remove the satellite dish whenever a customer would cancel. Eventually, they decided it was better to just leave the equipment since there was a chance the original renter would sign back up (or the next person to live there would sign up).

I know the solar equipment costs a lot more than a satellite dish but as I mentioned earlier, Tesla would still be producing solar and earning money from the utility companies via both net metering and renewable energy credits (RECs). We bought our solar system but I noticed in the fine print that we only get the RECs for the first 10 years. After that, Tesla gets them!

erikreynolds said:
That makes sense to me logically, but I wonder if the actual contract would reflect that policy.

I will be pressing the design engineer hard for information on:
Who precisely would be doing this installation?
What specific equipment would be installed (i.e. Delta or SolarEdge string inverter, etc)

I will be asking the rental sales rep for more information on:
What is my actual liability for these panels? What happens if they got damaged somehow by a storm (however unlikely)?
What maintenance am I required contractually to do and what should I do? (i.e. cleaning, snow removal, etc)
What happens if these short out and burn down my home?
Click to expand...

When they calculate the annual expected production, they take the weather into account. They wouldn't expect you to remove any snow and I doubt you'd have to do any maintenance at all. (We remove the snow on our panels but we own our system and clean them by choice. It's a good workout and helps to avoid cabin fever.)
 
#80
destructure00 said:
APS and Tucson Electric Power are approved for Tesla rentals in AZ.
Click to expand...

Chancellor32 said:
SRP actually was amazing to work with, it was Tesla who was dragging their feet on my install lol.
Click to expand...

One of the few advantages of APS here in NW valley I guess. Do they warranty/check out the roof? Any referral deals like with the cars??

We might be selling our house in a yr or so this would be a great option for the future buyer but I find it hard to believe this part:

"They pay for the system upfront and install it for as little as $50 and if the customer changes its mind and wants to stop paying, Tesla will just de-energize the system.

It will even leave it on the customer’s roof. If they want it off their roof, they will have to pay Tesla $1,500 to remove it.

Of course, Tesla is betting that no one is going to want to do that because their monthly prices are so attractive. You would need to send more money to your electric utility than what you are paying to Tesla"
 
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