Tesla Priorities: Refine Autopilot or Fix Everything Else?

[nienco2]

Agree, well said @BertL!

+1
Unfortunately for the past year I have detected a serious lack of customer focus with Tesla, read that EM. It's great he has many interests, hyperloop, spaceX, scty and Mars for heaven sake, but that surely impacts his car company. Here's my idea if I were in his inner circle, if he even has one:

Elon, I've been reading through the various forum posts of customers and future customers and several of them obviously are savvy, experienced people with some great ideas. Let's invite 20 of them to an all expenses paid retreat for a weekend and pick their brains. The most important criteria is that you are there!

 

[BertL]

Don't worry, today's owners will become "classic" owners soon, so you'll have company.

It's just one relatively new Owner's perspective, but I then very sadly predict there will be less Tesla owners at some point -- including myself -- if Tesla has lost focus on who really has and is funding their future, without better balancing what today's customers really want, desire, AND deserve -- WITH the future.

 

[brooklynrab]

Ohmman, I will see your comment with BertL's.
Tesla promised an improving car, via OTA updates, when we bought it. OTA has been a resource to make our cars worse, not better, and certainly not up to snuff with other similarly priced cars in any way other than the excellent driving experience. Hell, go into a Chevy dealership and play with Apple CarPlay, and you'll know what I mean. And you KNOW Apple will focus on making that interface and feature set rock -- unlike the experience most of us have had with Tesla's software for years now.
I started this thread to see how people felt about the company's software development priorities. Members' responses have been very illuminating. I just wish we knew whether anyone responsible at Tesla is reading it.

 

[msnow]

Ohmman, I will see your comment with BertL's.
Tesla promised an improving car, via OTA updates, when we bought it. OTA has been a resource to make our cars worse, not better, and certainly not up to snuff with other similarly priced cars in any way other than the excellent driving experience. Hell, go into a Chevy dealership and play with Apple CarPlay, and you'll know what I mean. And you KNOW Apple will focus on making that interface and feature set rock -- unlike the experience most of us have had with Tesla's software for years now.
I started this thread to see how people felt about the company's software development priorities. Members' responses have been very illuminating. I just wish we knew whether anyone responsible at Tesla is reading it.

In addition to an email to Tesla you can a Tweet Elon @elonmusk and let him politely know what you are expecting. It's worth a shot.

 

[BertL]

... Yes, I would like some improvements, and they have the capability. This is the double edged sword of OTA updating. As soon as we realize we can get improvements, we start to expect them. But to "satisfy us", all Tesla needs to do is service the mechanics of our vehicles properly IMO...

Completely agree.

My favorite word I used to use with my mgrs and HIPO across my team I spoke with one-on-one, is something I learned from a mentor of mine very early in my career: BALANCE.

As much as I really do love my MS and what it stands for in our future potential, that is what seems to have been lost with Elon and Tesla in recent times. There is so much focus on the future, delivering various beta code and new capabilities, then moving on to the next big idea before the last one was perfected enough in the eyes of the real Customers that own and drive their MS every day. We want those future capabilities, but also Tesla, PLEASE, pull back just a bit and continually deliver against the little things owners use many times every day that won't detract, and only add to the joy and satisfaction owning a Tesla brings to each of us.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I don't think we need worry how Tesla SW Development is organized. From my MS ownership POV, I don't care. I do care about what has and should be delivered to me as a customer. I paid good money for my MS, which replaced a relatively new Lexus and MBZ with all the traditional appointments I have come to expect from a luxury vehicle over many years. I'm happy to be part of an early set of Tesla owners helping to contribute to this EV Vision. I researched and thought long and hard what some of the challenges may entail and admittedly there were trade-offs -- it's in-fact why I waited to buy my MS until this past fall, when from my POV, a decent positive track record was being demonstrated. Unlike some early adopters it appears, I just couldn't bring myself to take undo personal risk with a $100K+ investment, when a start-up may go out of business, be unable to deliver on its commitments, or if my only mode of transportation were to be unreliable. I'm not flush enough with cash to treat my MS as a donation of sorts to a really smart entrapeneur that I admire in many ways, nor am I a Tesla or Elon Musk zealot as some may be. I do love my MS, but as I’ve said before, my satisfaction is going down ever so slightly as time goes on and my expectations are not being completely met.

I expect my MS, like the former luxury vehicles I’ve owned for 25+ years, to have reproducible defects corrected. That is what a warranty is all about. I also generally try to be a reasonable guy knowing not everything can be done immediately, but in-turn, there needs to at least be demonstrated progress or communication to keep me that way. I bet most owners here expect if they have a hardware failure, that Tesla, like any auto mfgr, will resolve the problem. We've seen Tesla get proactive with issues like door handles, 12V batteries, seat belts, and others. As Tesla’s face to us as customers, the SCs appear to generally go above and beyond ensuring excellent customer satisfaction resolving nearly any physical thing they can address. GREAT.

We all know MS is highly dependent upon software to run most of it’s systems. That's a huge benefit allowing Tesla unlike their competition to control their destiny and easily introduce new functions. Tesla also has the ability to provide OTA updates unlike it’s competition which is stellar. The rub for some of us begins when something is broken and acknowledged by Tesla as needing a software fix (with no known ETA). The SC documents it, and the customer is sent on their way with an unresolved problem and no further communication. Now that I’m an owner, I’ve also come to know some of the problems I and others have encountered, have existed -- unresolved -- for months or years awaiting a future software update. THAT, at a minimum, becomes a customer satisfaction problem that festers and grows with an increasing population of owners as time goes on and the problem isn't fixed. It's human nature that we end up telling many more people about our dissatisfaction, than when we are satisfied -- just think about posts on forums like TMC to confirm that point. Tesla needs to fix both hardware AND software bugs. Hiding behind "Autopilot is the Priority" and seemingly ignoring “maintenance” that may not be as interesting to the leadership, or will not generate positive Press, is unacceptable to I’d say most customers that pay for a Tesla of their own.

While it could be debated forever, Tesla also needs to focus additional resources on basic functions like Infotainment (e.g. Nav and Media Player) to make them more usable, and keep functionality at least current with the competition. The IC and 17” display were the big talk when MS first came out. I suspect early adopters overlooked and didn’t care as much about things like Nav routing and lack of USB media functions back in the day, because of their excitement having an internet connection, free streaming services, and other goodies that no other car had, and were new to them at the time. The potential of OTA updates providing additional functionality some day, likely also delayed some concern. It’s now been more than 3 years will little enhancements to a number of these almost utilitarian capabilities — especially when compared to what other luxury brands (that cost less) have delivered for years. Additionally, Tesla chose to be forward thinking and not provide a CD player, iPod or other hardwired media player support like most other luxury brands still do. So be that, except there are owners like myself that care about quality music when I'm driving, purchased UHFS, knowingly gave up full-function hardwired iPod capabilities with playlists and easy syncing from our music libraries coming to Tesla, and remain today with a less than optimal Infotainment experience compared to what I’ve owned and just grown to expect from my former Lexus, BMW and MBZ for years. Other mfgrs are now making CarPlay and Android Auto standard even in their non-luxury vehicles, and IMHO Tesla can't stand tall with what MS delivers functionally on that front today. My point being, as far advanced as Tesla is in say battery tech and having a growing Supercharger network, Tesla is behind in some of the basics and needs to step up or be surpassed. Sure, Infotainment isn’t the holy “Autopilot” we read about in the press, but it is what many (or is that, "most") drivers use and interact with every single time they get in their vehicle -- perhaps many times each day. As owners mature with their new toys -- even an MS -- and volumes sold increase, not having basic capabilities that are expected to just be there, become a disappointment and will ultimately impact sales. The need to deal with negative Sat and the Press as non-sexy capabilities get too far behind, then try to catch-up, in my experience, takes away even more from focused growth. What I call "the basics" need to be attended to more than they are.

Tesla Executives have the ability to prioritize what is worked on, no matter what their budgetary or staffing constraints are. I certainly did for many years, including as a young manager trading off my own secretary/assistant to transfer a new service technician into a remote geography, and IT and software teams I personally believed I needed to invest in for 2-3 year projects, while maintaining and growing today’s business despite increasing budgetary and off-shore pressure. Executives can make short and longer-term trade-offs if they want to. The question is, are non-Autopilot fixes and maintaining the basics even on Tesla's radar? I appreciate not all resources are immediately transportable (fungible -- had to look that up!), but IMHO, the real issue is Tesla Executives need to evolve more rapidly from operating a business that isn’t just a start-up focused on one man’s priorities any more, to where a little more “maintenance” is an expectation and established part of the every day norm. From my peanut gallery and owner perspective, priorities seem out-of-balance meeting obligations to:

1. FIX the backlog of software that is acknowledged as broken to existing customers
2. Enhance the non-sexy software basics (yes, like Nav and Media Player) to keep up with the competition and deliver the things owners simply expect a Tesla or premium luxury vehicle should have when they buy it
3. ...while creating all the new longer-term high-profile capabilities like Automous Driving and M3 that the future demands

The latter cannot be done almost to the exclusivity of the others, as it seems to for the most part be happening In recent times. Fortunately, all of this is deliverable OTA to the fleet when it’s ready. For me, it will be better than Christmas when those presents hopefully begin to arrive.

BRAVO and "me too" on everything you said. Maybe it's time for a petition or group of owners to send a letter to Tesla?

 

[calisnow]

Well if there's any doubt as to what feature Tesla views as being really important to sales - go load up the home page of Tesla Motors and see what it's changed to this afternoon.

 

[Rice390]

Glad to finally see a thread on this site that doesn't crucify somebody for voicing their frustrations with this company. I've stayed off the boards for a few months because of it.

Ampd nailed it in his opening post. Musk isn't a CEO, he's a lead engineer. My view, in three years when there is more competition, Tesla will get buried (i.e. GoPro experience). "But where will tesla be in three years". Well, seeing as how my driving experience has gotten worse over the last year (v7), I don't know if the future looks too bright. Keep your useless new features until literally any other non-acceleration-related function can hold its weight against other high end cars.

Cant say I care enough to join some sort of revolution (though would love to see it). I'll just wait until all the big boys join the game and blow tesla out of the water.

 

[AWDtsla]

I'm not a Tesla apologist by any means (I've been called out for being too critical at times), but I'd ask you to re-read this post and think about what you're saying. I think the words "specific plan to satisfy us" are the ones that come off as overly demanding. As I've mentioned upthread, I am generally pretty satisfied, as most MS owners are (look at any satisfaction index). Yes, I would like some improvements, and they have the capability. This is the double edged sword of OTA updating. As soon as we realize we can get improvements, we start to expect them. But to "satisfy us", all Tesla needs to do is service the mechanics of our vehicles properly IMO.

This was posted in another thread (or maybe this one), but it's a favorite of mine, and it's relevant.

I love Louis CK, but he's got one part of that wrong. It's not going to space. Anyway:

Yes people are spoiled and they treat the most amazing things as stupid black boxes, but this is NOT about that. This is more about "get it right get it tight". BMW has laughable software but at least before they ship a product they get all the little tiny nuances right that Tesla misses. We expect them to come as software updates. But maybe they will never come. Maybe it will just be a pyramid of more and more owners saying "Oh give them a break, what other electric car would you buy? You're lucky to be driving a Tesla, just shut up"

I would take continuous improvement as a sign it will be fixed, but there are lots and lots of rough edges currently, and they're clearly not getting attention. 7.1 has even rougher edges.

 

[calisnow]

My view, in three years when there is more competition, Tesla will get buried (i.e. GoPro experience). "But where will tesla be in three years". Well, seeing as how my driving experience has gotten worse over the last year (v7), I don't know if the future looks too bright.

To play devil's advocate for a moment and to try to remain hopeful - would you agree that it might be possible that a renewed focus on fixing bugs is in fact what Tesla might be up to right now? It seems like they've solved several big problems that must have taken a lot of the internal resources of this growing company for several years (IE: Model X development challenges, a mad push to deploy Autopilot, solving the various build quality issues around Model S and the drive units). It would seem reasonable that with both growing human power and with a few major hurdles behind them that the company now has a minute to "breathe" and go about cleaning up the software loose ends.

At least, I hope that's what is going to happen now.

 

[Rice390]

It seems like they've solved several big problems that must have taken a lot of the internal resources of this growing company for several years (IE: Model X development challenges, a mad push to deploy Autopilot, solving the various build quality issues around Model S and the drive units).

Can't speak on the model s drive units, but aside from that the Model X is an incomplete product that was rushed out the door, and the autopilot was a year late without telling its customers who paid for it a year earlier (myself included). Another botched roll out.

I understand what you're saying, but it's a behavioral issue at the top. Always looking to roll out the next best thing before finishing the original project at hand. That's what you get when you have an innovative guy like Musk running the show. Until he's moved to a different position, this lack of focus and execution is going to persist.

 

[ohmman]

I love Louis CK, but he's got one part of that wrong. It's not going to space.

That has always annoyed me about that bit, because otherwise it's solid comedy. But yeah, I realize.

This is more about "get it right get it tight".

I'd like to see that as well. I think they push too hard on progress, and I think they're growing too quickly to manage it all well. Look at the rate at which they're hiring right now and imagine trying to corral all of that talent. It doesn't help that someone from the top will come down and stir the pot up here and there, either.

On my classic MS, I don't care for the "toy car" on the speedometer. I would prefer my range be returned to that space. There's a contrast issue that isn't great. I'm not as hung up on this stuff as some others, because I just drive the car. That's one thing that's very right and tight, for me at least. It still drives better than any other car I've owned.

I have always said that I want Tesla to get it right for the time when the competition arrives for real. I've worked with a couple of companies where the getting was very, very good, and when times became lean, they were ill prepared to cope. I think Tesla is in that situation right now. If there were a competing, less flashy SUV (with folding seats) out there that had serious electric range and a charging network, I would have very likely ordered that instead of the MX. But, there's not, so Tesla wins.. that's not going to happen forever.

 

[brooklynrab]

Rice390 nails it -- read Musk's biography about his earlier achievements, and you will see a guy who is a brilliant, hard working big thinker who needed to be replaced or helped along at some point by market-driven executors. he rebuts that contention of course..... He needs a good and strong COO at tesla, a Tim Cook type. I dont think he tolerates that type of individual around him.

Can't speak on the model s drive units, but aside from that the Model X is an incomplete product that was rushed out the door, and the autopilot was a year late without telling its customers who paid for it a year earlier (myself included). Another botched roll out.

I understand what you're saying, but it's a behavioral issue at the top. Always looking to roll out the next best thing before finishing the original project at hand. That's what you get when you have an innovative guy like Musk running the show. Until he's moved to a different position, this lack of focus and execution is going to persist.

 

[ecarfan]

I have always said that I want Tesla to get it right for the time when the competition arrives for real. I've worked with a couple of companies where the getting was very, very good, and when times became lean, they were ill prepared to cope. I think Tesla is in that situation right now. If there were a competing, less flashy SUV (with folding seats) out there that had serious electric range and a charging network, I would have very likely ordered that instead of the MX. But, there's not, so Tesla wins.. that's not going to happen forever.

Nothing is forever. [emoji6] Yes if there was such a competitor I'm sure it would sell well.
But not only is there not one now, there is no sign that there will be one for years. Audi, the champion of EV press releases, has announced the Q6 for 2018 but said nothing about a charging network. 2019 Audi Q6 Car and Driver The German manufacturers assume that governments will build the charging networks. That might happen in Germany (and any such network is unlikely to be as effective as Teslas) but it won't happen in the US or in many other countries. I don't see any competing EV in Tesla's price class selling well without having a charging network comparable to the Supercharger network.
I think that the Q6 EV could potentially match the basic X features and very likely exceed it in some areas (except the Falcon Wings) but not come close to it in sales because of the lack of a useful high speed charging network. And I bet it won't be any cheaper, base model Q6 to base model X. It might even be more expensive because Audi will be paying more for batteries.
So while I welcome the Q6, it will not be the complete package that the X is now.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Well if there's any doubt as to what feature Tesla views as being really important to sales - go load up the home page of Tesla Motors and see what it's changed to this afternoon.

While Autopilot will get people interested, once they try out the other software systems they will find the car seriously lacking. Tesla is no longer selling to a core group of people who are so blinded by the fantastic EV driving experience that they choose to ignore the car's shortcomings. If the EV drivetrain is of little consequence to a buyer, there is nothing else here that is compelling at this high price point.

- - - Updated - - -

To play devil's advocate for a moment and to try to remain hopeful - would you agree that it might be possible that a renewed focus on fixing bugs is in fact what Tesla might be up to right now? It seems like they've solved several big problems that must have taken a lot of the internal resources of this growing company for several years (IE: Model X development challenges, a mad push to deploy Autopilot, solving the various build quality issues around Model S and the drive units). It would seem reasonable that with both growing human power and with a few major hurdles behind them that the company now has a minute to "breathe" and go about cleaning up the software loose ends.

At least, I hope that's what is going to happen now.

We've been saying this for 2-3 years now. While I hope that what you say is true, unfortunately I don't see anything in Tesla's track record that would lead me to believe that.

 

[BertL]

My corporate experience would concur with visionaries that are great at starting or rebuilding a broken business, generally lack the operational aptitude to sustain and grow one. It's the rare exception when a single individual has both the time and skill to do both with a business of any scale. Visionaries are great being THE leader, making nearly every decision, and moving the big ideas forward. They many times are awful at people management skills needed establish a broader management and skill base necessary to deal with succession planning for that company to grow and prosper long-term. They also generally get so focused "on what can be" or only their agenda, they either forget or deprioritize the operational business and customer needs that keep things going on the way to that future state. IMHO the best leaders will have at least one or more confidants that compliment the skills they are lacking or are not as interested in, who are fully trusted and entitled to run those areas of responsibilities with only very high-level and occasional intervention.

While Autopilot will get people interested, once they try out the other software systems they will find the car seriously lacking. Tesla is no longer selling to a core group of people who are so blinded by the fantastic EV driving experience that they choose to ignore the car's shortcomings. If the EV drivetrain is of little consequence to a buyer, there is nothing else here that is compelling at this high price point...

Completely agree. I just don't personally see Tesla as only a start-up any more, and IMHO it can't operate like one. Tesla appears to be operationally behind maturing as rapidly as it needs to handle increased volumes, and what they want to accomplish with M3. Today's and tomorrow's market has many more impatient and discriminating buyers, than the smaller number of cash-rich early adopters who got Elon and Tesla started -- even though I suspect early adopters are still the highest percentage of people contributing to this forum, while a lesser number of us are somewhere between the two.

... been saying this for 2-3 years now. While I hope that what you say is true, unfortunately I don't see anything in Tesla's track record that would lead me to believe that.

...as a manager of mine told me one day long ago, "Promises make conversation, but only results count."

 

[AWDtsla]

My corporate experience would concur with visionaries that are great at starting or rebuilding a broken business, generally lack the operational aptitude to sustain and grow one

If Tesla can't make the conversion, it's time to sell my stock. So far my car is telling me it's not happening.

 

[Gizmotoy]

We've been saying this for 2-3 years now. While I hope that what you say is true, unfortunately I don't see anything in Tesla's track record that would lead me to believe that.

Agreed. Tesla is still in full-on "Add features" mode, going down checking all the boxes. Media system? Check. Voice commands? Check. The fact that many of these systems look and feel half-complete is of little consequence because, first and foremost they technically exist, and second they can keep all resources focused on adding new features that keep Tesla in the news.

I get why that's important, and certainly a Tesla that behaves that way is better than one that went bankrupt because they aren't pulling in enough new buyers, but it does lead to a somewhat disappointing experience for current owners.

 

[AWDtsla]

Agreed. Tesla is still in full-on "Add features" mode, going down checking all the boxes. Media system? Check. Voice commands? Check. The fact that many of these systems look and feel half-complete is of little consequence because, first and foremost they technically exist, and second they can keep all resources focused on adding new features that keep Tesla in the news.

I get why that's important, and certainly a Tesla that behaves that way is better than one that went bankrupt because they aren't pulling in enough new buyers, but it does lead to a somewhat disappointing experience for current owners.

But this is so unnecessary. A team of 5 engineers would be plenty to continually be fixing up broken/missing functionality. That's nothing for Tesla. The only problem is if there isn't a management mandate to do this. It shouldn't take a billion dollars to update a browser that's just packaging up open source components anyway.

 

[RDoc]

But this is so unnecessary. A team of 5 engineers would be plenty to continually be fixing up broken/missing functionality. That's nothing for Tesla. The only problem is if there isn't a management mandate to do this. It shouldn't take a billion dollars to update a browser that's just packaging up open source components anyway.

Well, I think it would work better with 8 engineers.