Tesla readies revamped Model 3

[FastLaneJB]

I would look at the longer battery this way:
if range would suddenly become 500 miles, meaning that it is ~100 kwh. this would mean that I would stop to charge at SC for longer time but much less often.

Now for most people, you stop only during long trips. and in many cases this is like 15 min top up session (I presume)

but since with larger battery you reach your destination without need of SC - this slot will remain open.

Yes and no, assuming the charger is powerful enough then a larger battery will also charge faster. Not looked but maybe there's some stats to show charge times of a Model S LR or Plaid vs a Model 3. You can see this though that a Model 3 SR+ will charge slower than a Model 3 LR / Performance for same reasons, even more they changed the battery chemistry.

And exactly that around not needing a charger in the first place. The less you need to use public chargers, the less chance they'll be full and the less we might need overall as well. If you add in that you might still be able to fill that pack at the same speed roughly as a smaller pack then when you do need to charge you won't be taking that charger for any longer.

Just looked on YouTube and can see videos of Model 3 charging from empty to full and a Model S Plaid from empty to full, it's pretty much exactly the same time. Not saying in the future as battery chemistries change this will always be the case but it is now. You need a bigger battery to go faster for a faster discharge rate, Plaid is still limited by the batteries and not the motors. In reverse if you want to charge quicker, you also need a bigger battery. That faster charge speed cancels out the fact you have more capacity to fill. It's only an issue if you are on a slow charger where the charger and not the battery is the limiting factor for charge speed.

 

[FastLaneJB]

You're missing an important factor! The number of EVs on the roads is only going up. Fast! Even if higher capacity batteries will facilitate quicker charging and more people charging more/exclusively at home, that reduction of pressure on charging locations will be more than cancelled out by more and more EVs entering operation faster than the UK builds charging infrastructure! Less queues - lol!

Well I'm not saying we won't need more chargers than we have now, that's obviously the case. But in theory if every EV did 500 miles vs 250 miles and they could charge at around the same speed you'd need half the amount of chargers for 500 mile cars vs 250 mile cars to have the same amount of demand / queues (Or not).

Of course not saying this is feasible, we cannot make enough battery packs and the cost is still a big factor. At the same time though we don't seem to be able to build the charging network out quick enough either. Which comes first, the UK government sorts out the charging infrastructure or batteries become cheap enough and plentiful that we can have longer range EV's?

 

[FastLaneJB]

How many ice cars do you know that have EPA range of 650 Plus miles? You don't need that kind of range. Nobody wants to drive for 8+ hours before taking a bathroom break. I think you're confused about wish lists versus something that's really needed for practical transportation. By the time we finish coffee, bathroom break, stretching our legs, there's 5 minutes left in our charging cycle on our model 3s with a version 3 charger. 5 minutes. That's it.

My Land Rover has over 700 miles claimed range, it'll do 600 without issue for me in the real world without really trying. That's a heavy, brick shaped SUV so it's hardly efficient. I see you are from the US so you only use petrol generally but at least until dieselgate, 50% roughly of all cars sold in the UK where diesel and I bet almost all of them would do 500 miles without breaking a sweat. You could get ones and still can that would break 1,000 real world miles between fill ups.

Yes of course I cannot go 600 miles without a bathroom break but I don't need to stop for as long as an electric car needs to charge either other than when I need to eat and have to wait for the food. I'm ready to go long before the car is and I don't have to worry about finding a working charger or there being a queue.

 

[WannabeOwner]

of course I cannot go 600 miles without a bathroom break but I don't need to stop for as long as an electric car needs to charge

IME you would arrive in far better condition if you did take a 20 minute break every 2 - 3 hours, on a long journey.

As I've mentioned before, we have driven to Alps to ski and chosen to drive (ICE originally, now EV) for 20 - 30 years. We were much younger when we started doing it ... we did a swap-drivers every 2-3 hours, less than a 5 minute stop in an Aire, plus one refuel and eat stop.

Its a 12-hour door-to-door journey, with an hour for a meal (whether ICE or EV) the EV has 3x additional 20 minute recharging stops and we are now elderly but arrive far more refreshed than when we just did pit-stop driver changes.

 

[FastLaneJB]

IME you would arrive in far better condition if you did take a 20 minute break every 2 - 3 hours, on a long journey.

As I've mentioned before, we have driven to Alps to ski and chosen to drive (ICE originally, now EV) for 20 - 30 years. We were much younger when we started doing it ... we did a swap-drivers every 2-3 hours, less than a 5 minute stop in an Aire, plus one refuel and eat stop.

Its a 12-hour door-to-door journey, with an hour for a meal (whether ICE or EV) the EV has 3x additional 20 minute recharging stops and we are now elderly but arrive far more refreshed than when we just did pit-stop driver changes.

We probably did have a 10 - 20 minute break like that for us, not because the car needed if of course.

It’s not quite like this though with electric cars currently. Take Model 3 Performance then real world in UK outside of summer you’ve maybe just over 200 miles, say 220 real world range and that would be 0 - 100% battery which you won’t use but also if you did it would take around 1 hour on a supercharger. So let’s say you are using a more reasonable range then you probably have 150 - 180 miles you’ll use and 40 minutes to charge that back up on each stop. This is assuming that there is a working charger available and no queue to access it.

I think there’s plenty of threads that say people take longer to do trips than they used to in an ICE. Is that good for you? Yes, it might well be but you also don’t have a choice in how you do it because the car is forcing you to stop more regularly.

When you do these long journeys do you plan them before you go to workout charging stops, fallback options if they are full or not working? Did you ever do that with an ICE where you had to plan fall back fuel stations if one was out of commission or had a queue?

Just saying I’m fully brought into the electric future but it’s early days still and room for improvement. They’ll solve all these issues in time with better battery chemistries and more chargers. Until then there is scope for ICE still for some use cases in my book. Another one to be honest where the batteries need to vastly increase in size is towing.

 

[init6]

If I wanted a car with a long range I wouldn't pick a Performance model.
Not sure which model I'd pick though

 

[Lord Farquad]

If I wanted a car with a long range I wouldn't pick a Performance model.
Not sure which model I'd pick though

Tesla Model 3 Long Range RWD available for commercial customers

A Tesla Account Manager in the United Kingdom (UK) recently announced the launch of a Model 3 Long Range RWD variant.

www.teslarati.com

Although it’s a fleet only option (for now)….

 

[Sparkeur]

My Land Rover has over 700 miles claimed range, it'll do 600 without issue for me in the real world without really trying. That's a heavy, brick shaped SUV so it's hardly efficient.

What model of Land Rover is that? I have a 2012 Discovery (heavy brick shaped too) and can just about squeeze 650 kilometres of range into it. 700 miles (1100 km) is a stunning amount.

 

[init6]

Tesla Model 3 Long Range RWD available for commercial customers

A Tesla Account Manager in the United Kingdom (UK) recently announced the launch of a Model 3 Long Range RWD variant.

www.teslarati.com

Although it’s a fleet only option (for now)….

If only there was a long range model that is currently available

 

[ACarneiro]

Tesla Model 3 Long Range RWD available for commercial customers

A Tesla Account Manager in the United Kingdom (UK) recently announced the launch of a Model 3 Long Range RWD variant.

www.teslarati.com

Although it’s a fleet only option (for now)….

This is really interesting and to me seems to confirm that there is an appetite out there for longer ranged cars.

 

[Durzel]

Tesla Model 3 Long Range RWD available for commercial customers

A Tesla Account Manager in the United Kingdom (UK) recently announced the launch of a Model 3 Long Range RWD variant.

www.teslarati.com

Although it’s a fleet only option (for now)….

These cars will turn up at auctions, etc after 2-3 years. At least it'll be easy to spot them and know that they were motorway munchers.

 

[FastLaneJB]

If I wanted a car with a long range I wouldn't pick a Performance model.
Not sure which model I'd pick though

You have a point there of course but I don’t think the LR is long enough yet either. One of the benefits I think of EV's is you can have a fast car and not have a big hit in range unlike with high powered ICE cars.

The distance difference on the Model 3 Performance be Long Range is I suspect mostly down to the wheels. Maybe the boot spoiler actually also doesn't help with efficiency either.

 

[FastLaneJB]

What model of Land Rover is that? I have a 2012 Discovery (heavy brick shaped too) and can just about squeeze 650 kilometres of range into it. 700 miles (1100 km) is a stunning amount.

Discovery 5 with the D300 engine. They improved efficiency a lot when they went from the Old Ford V6's to their own inline 6, it's a Mild Hybrid also which will help a little bit. 89 litre tank of course so it takes a lot of fuel.

It's not 700 miles in real world at least with my driving but 600 is realistic from my driving. Basically enough to get me pretty much anywhere in the UK without having to fill up if the tank is full at the start. Often back home again as well without issues.

 

[init6]

One of the benefits I think of EV's is you can have a fast car and not have a big hit in range unlike with high powered ICE cars.

The LR is plenty fast enough - or if not, you can add acceleration boost.

 

[FEERSUMENDJIN]

If I wanted a car with a long range I wouldn't pick a Performance model.
Not sure which model I'd pick though

The performance model has a really good range. The small difference vs the LR is trivial. Probably would make less than 10 minutes difference on a 500 mile journey. I looked at the LR vs the SR and it was 20-30 minutes difference in the run from Dundee to London.

 

[FEERSUMENDJIN]

You have a point there of course but I don’t think the LR is long enough yet either. One of the benefits I think of EV's is you can have a fast car and not have a big hit in range unlike with high powered ICE cars.

The distance difference on the Model 3 Performance be Long Range is I suspect mostly down to the wheels. Maybe the boot spoiler actually also doesn't help with efficiency either.

I can drive 3 hours in my m3P performance on motorway before charging, the drives after that are shorter as you only charge to 80% on the superchargers, but they are still in the range of my own personal comfort. Have done 76K miles including trips to the Alps from Scotland. I feel no need for more range on this car. It is at 90% every morning and does a a 75 mile commute using only 15% of the battery.

 

[dfwatt]

We probably did have a 10 - 20 minute break like that for us, not because the car needed if of course.

It’s not quite like this though with electric cars currently. Take Model 3 Performance then real world in UK outside of summer you’ve maybe just over 200 miles, say 220 real world range and that would be 0 - 100% battery which you won’t use but also if you did it would take around 1 hour on a supercharger. So let’s say you are using a more reasonable range then you probably have 150 - 180 miles you’ll use and 40 minutes to charge that back up on each stop. This is assuming that there is a working charger available and no queue to access it.

I think there’s plenty of threads that say people take longer to do trips than they used to in an ICE. Is that good for you? Yes, it might well be but you also don’t have a choice in how you do it because the car is forcing you to stop more regularly.

When you do these long journeys do you plan them before you go to workout charging stops, fallback options if they are full or not working? Did you ever do that with an ICE where you had to plan fall back fuel stations if one was out of commission or had a queue?

Just saying I’m fully brought into the electric future but it’s early days still and room for improvement. They’ll solve all these issues in time with better battery chemistries and more chargers. Until then there is scope for ICE still for some use cases in my book. Another one to be honest where the batteries need to vastly increase in size is towing.

BMW and all the other Legacy automakers who are claiming that ICE has a role all the way to 2040 would love what you're saying. The problem with what you're saying is not that we could not benefit from more range it's whether or not that argument is an excuse for more
foot dragging, procrastination, obfuscation and other strategies that fossil fuel Legacy based operations and corporations have been using for decades.

 

[init6]

The performance model has a really good range. The small difference vs the LR is trivial. Probably would make less than 10 minutes difference on a 500 mile journey. I looked at the LR vs the SR and it was 20-30 minutes difference in the run from Dundee to London.

Perhaps on paper, but people who have paid extra for the performance model tend to have a heavy right foot, hence posts like this:

M3p from SR+

hello all, I have a question here and perhaps aimed at pre refresh M3P owners. I've had my Model 3 2021 coming up to two years of ownership now and absolutely loved it. Road trips have been fine. It's a dream to drive and fun. Only recently I was loaned a model s 100D and having that longer...

teslamotorsclub.com

This post suggest the difference is 11% which in my book is not insignificant.

My original point though was if you are going to argue for a bigger battery for longer range then your base should be the current model with the longest range.

 

[Zilla91]

The LR is plenty fast enough - or if not, you can add acceleration boost.

That's exactly the kind of thing I'd expect someone who doesn't own a Performance model to say...

 

[Avalyn]

Just to add to the charge/stop/long journey chat, I recently drove 322 miles in my M3 LR to pick up a new (to me) car.

90% charge the night before, used 75% for 122 miles from Aberdeen to Edinburgh cold, really windy, dark, wipers on (manual), lights on, cabin at 21, heated steering wheel on @65 mph.

Stopped for 30 mins to charge back up at Newbridge to 60%. Another 90 odd miles to Adderstone, down to 25%.

Stopped for 50 mins to charge back up to 90% (had breakfast) then 123 miles to Knaresborough with @35 % charge remaining.

Rough figures of around £60 for charging from Tesla network.

Drove back up the road, one fuel stop about 20 miles back up the road £77 of super 99. Home with 1/4 tank showing range of 140 miles.

I'd say a difference of around £10 for fuel/charge, but I could have had one stop of 10 minutes rather than having to pre-charge the night before and have 2 stops totaling 80 minutes on the way down.

Down in an EV, back up in a 4.0 v8 twin turbo petrol SUV at 30.6 mpg.

Reinforces the point most EV owners are making to me about (in cost terms) no point in having an EV without being able to home charge.

I'll also add it was way less stressful coming home, no worries about the range disappearing because of cold/wind, and wipers, lights and cruise control that just work

I still think for @£50k a Tesla is the best EV and I'm sure one day I may be back but for now, while I'm allowed, I'll enjoy a v8 rumble