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Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot

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It is a double edged sword.
Amen, and the sharper edge varies from release to release.
On the other hand, I shared your misunderstanding of what OTA updates would do TO my car. I honestly thought it would only improve it, and didn't realize that it allowed tesla to remove paid-for features (the function of my radar), and UI changes would make the car more difficult to use.
I’ve successfully avoided loss of radar in my 2018 M3 by not initiating the install process since the last pre-TeslaVision release despite downloading many subsequent updates. Radar still works fine, as does AutoPark, Summon, and even Smart Summon. I know, I know, I’ve missed out on so many exciting new “features” such as autopilot suspension annoyances, the much-desired screaming goat sound for locking the vehicle, the can’t-possibly-be-without Castle Doombad, and the omigosh-how-did-I-ever-live-without-this OTA recall that increased the size of BRAKE-ABS-PARK notifications that became a burr on the saddle of the NHTSA.

Yeah, I’ve missed some marginally (imo) useful things too, but nothing that would be better than my sort-of-OK UI, my very useful and accurate AutoPark, the daily-used and reliable Summon, and the infrequently-initiated but still useful Smart Summon. Then there’s the “1” following distance that is priceless in bumper-to-bumper traffic. Yeah, staying where I am as long as I can. And it has been a glorious 554 days since my last update install. Whoa.

On a separate note, I like hyphens and compound adjectives. Always have. But you likely guessed that.
 
The Dan O'Dowd commercials must've been regional commercials. They were not aired in Minnesota.
"Last year, The Dawn Project aired its ads in Washington, DC, and the capitals of highly populated states: Atlanta; Austin, Texas; Tallahassee, Florida; Albany, New York; and Sacramento, California. This year, the ads will again be seen in Washington, DC, along with Dover, Delaware; Traverse City, Michigan; and Santa Barbara, California." - https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/11/business/anti-tesla-super-bowl-ad/index.html
 
Sheesh.

I don't know what it is. The SO and I happen at the moment to have two Teslas, a 2021 MY and, currently, a 2023 M3 that replaced a 2018 M3 during the "swap and keep FSD" follies of last year.

The SO, interestingly, is a no-kidding Human Factors engineer, underlying degrees in Industrial Engineering. I'm the techie maniac with a very-mixed-signal background in EE.

Let's just say that I more than I care to mention about RADAR, specifically, and have a decent handle on what's going on with all this NN stuff. And control theory. And integrated circuit design. I joke around a bit about working on stuff from DC to Daylight.. and it's not that much of a joke.

And I've been messing with technology since I was a teenager. Ham Radio with tubes and knobs; actually building some (in terms of transistors) Pentium class IC, VHDL and all (that last with a team.. which, at times, I led.)

So let's get real: Technology changes. The look of MSDOS 1.1 doesn't look much like IBM JCL and punch cards; neither of those had much to do with Windows 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 95, or any of those successors. And the tools that I had to use.. they changed, too, for as much as they've always tended to be text based, although in latter years even GUIs came to those. And the GUIs changed, too.

And, you know what? Living with changed development systems was never a problem. It's just the job. For that matter, living with changed software systems was never a problem. Yeah, I Am That Guy who always downloads the latest updates, learns what's different (release notes, anybody?) and Just Goes On. I read manuals, too, from time to time.

And I actually appreciate Tesla's approach. As I said, the SO is an HF person. She has actually designed human-machine interfaces to make users' lives easier, reduce error rates, and reduce costs.

Thing is, nobody runs around changing GUIs and stuff just to irritate the heck out of people with an Old Fogey attitude. I suspect that Tesla doesn't speak about it much, but they clearly have HF people on stuff, as does every other car manufacturer. The difference is, with the old-timey car makers, is once they've put their buttons and clicky stuff where they wanted it, no matter how bad it was (and it could be pretty bad), there wasn't going to be any changes going forward. Except, possibly, once every multi-year interval when the designers got a chance to give it another whack.

And people don't generally complain about bad UI on older cars because humans are adaptable and get used to it. Anybody remember when the high-beam/low-beam switch was on the floor to the left of the brake pedal? How about when the wiper speed switch was on the dash, and not a stalk? You guys may not remember, but I remember how much Consumers Reports complained about those changes.. because whatever it was, it was different, and that meant that people had to learn something different, and, to CU, in full Old Fogey mode, that was too much.

Thing is: Stalks Are better, at least to the wipers on the dash/headlight high beams on the floor control theory. Right at your fingertips, hardly have to take one's hands off the wheel. Did that stop CU from bitching? Nope.

So, our buddies at Tesla have Mad Scientist HF types who, from time to time, take a really serious look at the User Interface. If they're the type of HF types I think they are, they pull their rats (random subjects pulled from the street, literally usually) and run them through the maze of old GUI/new GUI, for both experienced and non-experienced users. And, after a lot of testing, statistical analysis, and what-all, they plotch a new GUI on the hoi polloi.

When this happens, do I freak out and start screaming? Nope, it's just another blame GUI change. First thing to do is figure out what's changed so errors aren't made, then apply brain, fiddle with it, and see what's good/bad/indifferent.

Honestly, there's nothing bad about the Tesla GUI. Moving the speedometer from the far right on the screen to the left, which is a closer angular distance to the eyeball, improves safety. Trying to arrange the GUI that, with non-infinite real estate, packs Large Icons into a limited space with reasonable efficiency and usability. Is it perfect? Nope. Can it be improved? Sure. And TESLA CAN IMPROVE IT. Try that, any other automobile manufacturer.

As regards the RADAR and sonar sensors on the car.. heck, we humans get around without RADAR pretty effectively, and don't really need USS to figure out where things are, and a Tesla has a lot more eyeballs than we do. Once Tesla realized that that extra hardware wasn't going to be cost-effective, both for users buying the car and the company spending money developing software to support those sensors, and the fundamental issue that development money was probably better spent on getting the blame FSD working, it actually makes sense that pulling the bandaid off by disabling the RADAR and USS was a good idea. I mean: Keeping a dozen or three engineers working on keeping USS and RADAR working when those hardware platforms are going to be ditched?

I'll admit I've been sad that my parallel and tail-in parking and the basic Summon were gone when I got the 2023 M3. But I've been pretty impressed with the visual aids on parking that both the 2021 and 2023 cars have been displaying, heat maps and all. And, unlike the people who run around screaming, "Fraud! Fraud! It's all Fraud!", I actually believe Tesla is going to return those functions to the car. That heat map stuff we're seeing right now sure looks like a big step in that direction. Frankly, I'm more than happy to wait, so long as it's not going to be a year more.. and Tesla has been saying it won't be a year more for that.

So, I don't have a lot of sympathy for @SidetrackedSue, who appears to have degenerated into true Old Fogey mode. What's next with her? Horses? (Although technology change comes to horses, too: At one time neither horse collars nor stirrups were around. Although I was definitely not around for that.)
 
Also could only find the 2023 superbowl add.


Now, let's see a report of how many crashes, injuries, and deaths have been AVOIDED because of AutoPilot/FSDb. They conveniently didn't report that.

Seats belts and airbags kill people, too, but the net savings is worth the risk.

If FSD mowed down 10 kids, but avoided mowing down 100 who would otherwise have been mowed down because the driver wasn't paying attention in a vehicle that didn't have FSD, then that's a net savings of 90 lives.
 
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So, I don't have a lot of sympathy for @SidetrackedSue, who appears to have degenerated into true Old Fogey mode. What's next with her? Horses? (Although technology change comes to horses, too: At one time neither horse collars nor stirrups were around. Although I was definitely not around for that.)

Let me guess, you are an iPhone user.

I'm Android. I get to set the UI the way I like it. I upgrade when I choose to. I control technology and adopt it when (or if, in the case of IoT) I want to and not when any tech giant imposes it on me. And I choose not to let technology control me.

If that makes me an old fogey, so be it.

I wear that badge proudly.
 
Let me guess, you are an iPhone user.

I'm Android. I get to set the UI the way I like it. I upgrade when I choose to. I control technology and adopt it when (or if, in the case of IoT) I want to and not when any tech giant imposes it on me. And I choose not to let technology control me.

If that makes me an old fogey, so be it.

I wear that badge proudly.
Um. First smartphone was an S5, followed by an S8. Got tired of the (at the time) three year support cycle that, if one’s phone wasn’t being updated any more, security updates included, one was At Risk for a hack du jour and had to buy a more secure phone. Even if the phone was in good working order.

Along those lines, one could in theory jailbreak the Android phone and put an AOSP load on it.. but then certain apps, especially financial ones, would detect the jailbreak and not run, rather negating the whole reason for a smartphone in the first place.

And the whole Google/phone manufacturers/device manufacturers/telephone service providers ecosystem for updates is a hot, steaming, stinking mess, and that’s putting it kindly, with severe security updates delayed for months (with a good manufacturer) and over a year with the bad ones. Which means that when Google dumps out the monthly security update in all its detailed glory once every month, it’s a-gonna be a looonnnggg time given to the hackers to go out and play with unpatched phones.

Unless one uses a plain vanilla phone from Google itself or Nokia. And in Google’s case, given that they’ve abandoned their ‘Don’t Be Evil’ motto some time back, do I really want to have my data in their clutches, available to anybody for the nickel Google’ll charge?

So, yeah, switched to an iPhone. Which goes back to my previous comments about, ‘It’s different. So what?’ There are things the iPhone does better than an Android and some things it does worse, mainly due to Apple’s more bloody-minded take on security. But the two phone types are a lot more similar than different. With one exception: When Apple finds a security flaw, they patch right away, no ifs, buts, maybes, or delays.

And, what the heck, I’m the go-to guy for tech support for family and friends on both platforms.

So, what is it about iPhones that give you problems?
 
So, what is it about iPhones that give you problems?

I was told the reason I didn't like my tesla constantly changing the UI is because I'm an Android user so I didn't understand how great it was when the great white saviour decides what features and how I should use my phone/car.

He was trying to prove that I shouldn't be bothered by changes in the tesla UI because I lived with updates on my phone all the time. I pointed out I pick my own launcher and stick with that. That when he said, "Android! you are an Android user, that's why you don't understand teslas."

You are effectively saying I'm the problem and shouldn't be allowed to comment on how I perceive owning a tesla. It's my problem and tesla's constant and oftentimes random or even dangerous changing of the UI is a 'feature' that I am to like or at least shut up about. I bought a car with a specific feature set and didn't expect those features to change so dramatically. I'm use to the olden days when, if I made the choice to buy a car with three on the tree and not four on the floor, I don't want anyone coming and changing my car because my preference was, in their opinion, flawed and they made a mistake in offering me three on the tree in the first place.
 
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"Last year, The Dawn Project aired its ads in Washington, DC, and the capitals of highly populated states: Atlanta; Austin, Texas; Tallahassee, Florida; Albany, New York; and Sacramento, California. This year, the ads will again be seen in Washington, DC, along with Dover, Delaware; Traverse City, Michigan; and Santa Barbara, California." - https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/11/business/anti-tesla-super-bowl-ad/index.html
It seems like the NTSB isn't happy with Dan's use of their seal: NTSB Statement on “Dawn Project” Super Bowl Ad

The NTSB had no involvement in the production of this advertisement, did not authorize the use of its seal, nor does it endorse the work of the Dawn Project. The agency has asked the group to stop the unauthorized use of the NTSB seal.
 
I was told the reason I didn't like my tesla constantly changing the UI is because I'm an Android user so I didn't understand how great it was when the great white saviour decides what features and how I should use my phone/car.

He was trying to prove that I shouldn't be bothered by changes in the tesla UI because I lived with updates on my phone all the time. I pointed out I pick my own launcher and stick with that. That when he said, "Android! you are an Android user, that's why you don't understand teslas."

You are effectively saying I'm the problem and shouldn't be allowed to comment on how I perceive owning a tesla. It's my problem and tesla's constant and oftentimes random or even dangerous changing of the UI is a 'feature' that I am to like or at least shut up about. I bought a car with a specific feature set and didn't expect those features to change so dramatically. I'm use to the olden days when, if I made the choice to buy a car with three on the tree and not four on the floor, I don't want anyone coming and changing my car because my preference was, in their opinion, flawed and they made a mistake in offering me three on the tree in the first place.
Look: Some people can't stand change. It's not necessarily a flaw. Change for the sake of change is one of those whirlpools that nobody should have to contend with.

My point is, such as it is, is that not all change is bad. Tesla changes its software and hardware for reasons that they think are legit. You disagree.

Personal preference is hard to argue with. So, if a never-ending series of changes over time is something You Can't Stand on your Tesla, then, well, this isn't the car for you. Sorry about the crack about horses, but a car you buy once, with knobs, and no updates to the equivalent of a NAV seems to be more your milieu. Once you learn it, no changes until you get a new car..

But.. Android User... The UIs for Ice Cream Sandwich, Jelly Bean, Kitkat, Lollipop, and Marshmallow (at which point I bailed) were all somewhat different from each other. And not that different, just new features being added.I think the GUI changes have slowed down as the rough edges get knocked off over time. And the same would be true for iOS, although I've just been mucking with it since 12.x.
 
Such a weird discussion. There are things you can control in life, and things you cannot control. Why get bent out of shape for things you cannot control? What's the old adage? "O God, give us the serenity to accept what cannot be changed, the courage to change what can be changed, and the wisdom to know the one from the other."

Many of these comments seem very: Tell us you bought the wrong car without telling us you bought the wrong car...
 
Sheesh.
…the "swap and keep FSD" follies of last year.
Great phrase, thanks for the morning chuckle!
Anybody remember when the high-beam/low-beam switch was on the floor to the left of the brake pedal?
I do, I do. Loved it there, gave the left foot something to do after clutches disappeared from my choice of cars.
I'll admit I've been sad that my parallel and tail-in parking and the basic Summon were gone when I got the 2023 M3….I actually believe Tesla is going to return those functions to the car.
Faith is a wonderful thing in the lives of so many. For me, I need a lot more convincing that TeslaVision AutoPark is ever going to work as well as that in my 2018 Model 3 on ancient software. I’m open to it, but I believe no Tesla forecast nor promise. Show me and I’ll update in a heartbeat.
 
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Anybody remember when the high-beam/low-beam switch was on the floor to the left of the brake pedal?
Never owned a car with that, but when I first started driving my parents Kingswood Estate wagon had one.

IMG_1874.jpeg



My friend has a ‘40 Ford Coup. In those years, the starter button was on the floor.

IMG_1873.jpeg
 
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Never owned a car with that, but when I first started driving my parents Kingswood Estate wagon had one.

View attachment 1017895


My friend has a ‘40 Ford Coup. In those years, the starter button was on the floor.

View attachment 1017896

When I took my driving test I was driving my sister's 1982 Buick LeSabre which had the stalk control for the high beams, but the car that had been handed down to me was the old family 1967 Chevy Caprice. I didn't realize that the high beam button had moved and flapped around a bit when the instructor asked me to demonstrate the high beam control. He was understanding and didn't mark me down when I explained the car I would be driving had the button on the floor.
 
AAAAANNNNNDDDD! Back on topic.

Got a recall notice from Tesla today, for the better driver monitoring. And it had some pretty snarky statements:

"... Our records show that you are the owner of a vehicle affected by this action that is already running a software version containing the prescribed remedy."

And

"At no charge to you, Tesla deployed an over-the-air ("OTA") firmware update to affected vehicles that incorporates additional controls and alerts to those already existing on affected vehicles to further encourage drivers to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility whenever Autosteer is engaged."

And

"Our records indicate that your vehicle is currently running a software version containing the remedy and there is no further action that you need to take."

Somehow, I think the wording in the letter was at least partly designed to raise the blood pressure of the NHTSA types who insisted that Tesla had to mail out these notices.
 
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AAAAANNNNNDDDD! Back on topic.

Got a recall notices from Tesla today, for the better driver monitoring. And it had some pretty snarky statements:

"... Our records show that you are the owner of a vehicle affected by this action that is already running a software version containing the prescribed remedy."

And

"At no charge to you, Tesla deployed an over-the-air ("OTA") firmware update to affected vehicles that incorporates additional controls and alerts to those already existing on affected vehicles to further encourage drivers to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility whenever Autosteer is engaged."

And

"Our records indicate that your vehicle is currently running a software version containing the remedy and there is no further action that you need to take."

Somehow, I think the wording in the letter was at least partly designed to raise the blood pressure of the NHTSA types who insisted that Tesla had to mail out these notices.
Mine arrived today via US mail but was worded differently. Something along the lines of "make sure you are running version 2023.44.30 or greater" lol