Tesla Self Parking

[GeorgeSymonds]

My own take (independent of regulations in place) is: if you don’t have any control over the steering and movement of the vehicle while it performs an automated task, and not prompted to “take back control” you shouldn’t be held accountable….

You have described level 3 and above which Tesla aren't at.

Level 1 and 2 are different, the driver needs to pay attention and take over when/if they feel the car's autonomous system is doing something wrong.

Your mindset is part of the reason the regulators are concerned, your expectation is out of line with the reality.

 

[WllXM]

You have described level 3 and above which Tesla aren't at.

Level 1 and 2 are different, the driver needs to pay attention and take over when/if they feel the car's autonomous system is doing something wrong.

Your mindset is part of the reason the regulators are concerned, your expectation is out of line with the reality.

I was referring to the Autopark feature in this instance. Not driving. Not sure if it falls well into L3 driving in ECE regulations.

In most self parking assistants you are expected to switch gears manually and accelerate/brake yourself. Therefore you are in control / can override and remain liable. While the Tesla handles these parts then I would argue you are no longer in control in a L2 manner

 

[DrJFoster]

All UK M3 are HW3

Model S aren't though

The point I was trying to make is Tesla change the spec of their car so often that just quoting a year doesn't tell you everything, the hardware and software version can all make a difference, and an acknowledgement of that to me could have been informative to casual watchers.

He's doesn't seem to have bothered researching the topic, he doesn't know the basis on how the systems work, for instance which look for lines, which look for curbs and which just look for two cars to park between. A slightly reconfigured test could have yielded different results, and again it could be informative if he'd been able to explain these things and when the systems work better and when worse. As it is, it's just a sensationalist headline with limited depth which is his standard approach. .

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I was referring to the Autopark feature in this instance. Not driving. Not sure if it falls well into L3 driving in ECE regulations.

In most self parking assistants you are expected to switch gears manually and accelerate/brake yourself. Therefore you are in control / can override and remain liable. While the Tesla handles these parts then I would argue you are no longer in control in a L2 manner

I think I've quoted it before on here somewhere but I certainly remember reading an article which made a penny drop for me, and thats the difference between who or what is doing the actions and who's accountable those actions are done correctly. The example was the motorway autonomous driving that Merc have, the car does the actual driving pretty much all the time, and the level can change between level 2 and level 3 as the environment changes, however the only thing that has changed with respect to the driver when the car changes from level 2 to level 3 and back is their accountability.

So when we transpose that to parking, its essentially the same. The "who is moving the wheel, applying brakes, pushing the accelerator" is not the same as the 'who is accountable'. Sure, if on other cars you have to change gear yourself etc then its easy to see the driver is accountable, but even if the car doing more of those features for you it does not mean the car is accountable.

The article I read, and I wish I could find it, highlighted that it's entirely possible that at somepoint we may have a Tesla that will do all the driving tasks to take you to work wherever that may be, including complex junctions etc, but still be at level 2 and the driver accountable, and by definition paying attention and ready to step in when required. Whereas another car may not be able to do anything like that type of journey but can do all driving tasks on a motorway at all speeds, and cruicially be accountable for doing that whcih is level 3 and possibly level 4.

The concern is that some people assume the more a car does, the more accountability it has, and thats simply not the case.

 

[Jason71]

I am scheduled to collect an MY in September. With the plus points of a Tesla that still exist. particlarly for me the SuC network and availability ( ironically not features of the cars themselves).
I have no regrets.
BUT
In 3ish years when i look to change again I predict most of those plus points will have been nutralised by the oposition. At that point if Tesla have not got their sh1t together on the basics of wbat a £60k car should be capable of then i think i will be looking elsewhere TBH.

 

[init6]

Here's the previous thread I referenced:

Auto-park bashed our neighbour's car - should Tesla pay both repair bills?

My wife has just used auto-park to park our Model 3, and while on auto-park it swung round way too early at speed damaging the left rear of the car in front and right front side of our car. It did it too quickly to have cancelled, and there were no obstacles and there was plenty of space so...

teslamotorsclub.com

A lot of the (not really) legal arguments are discussed. No sign of that OP having taken the case to court

 

[init6]

In 3ish years when i look to change again I predict most of those plus points will have been nutralised by the oposition. At that point if Tesla have not got their sh1t together on the basics of wbat a £60k car should be capable of then i think i will be looking elsewhere TBH.

IIRC people have been saying that for at least the past 2 years. But it will come true at some point.

 

[Jason71]

IIRC people have been saying that for at least the past 2 years. But it will come true at some point.

True they have. I was not one of them to this point. I came from decidedly non luxury cars to a Tesla so you don't miss what you didnt have. But when you see stuff like this video it does make you think. I also had a rental with cooled vented seats (ironically when M3 was broken) and it was like hmm this is nice.

 

[Rooster6655]

My own take (independent of regulations in place) is: if you don’t have any control over the steering and movement of the vehicle while it performs an automated task, and not prompted to “take back control” you shouldn’t be held accountable….

If TACC failed and hit the car in front, then I am quite sure that the manufacturer is unlikely to hold their hands up and take any responsibility, would potentially take some deep pockets to try and get them to pay out.

Tesla has never accepted any responsibility for any Autopilot failures so should be deemed leaders in the field of avoiding being held accountable in these areas

 

[yessuz]

Tesla cannot get Auto high beam, auto self Parking, auto wipers - the actions which were done perfectly fine in 2015 reg Ford Mondeo (!!!), cannot assemble car without rattles appearing in first 6 months of using it, again, perfected in Mondeo which cost HALF the price of Model 3.
then they cannot/refuse to make silent Auto Pilot on/off and proper zoom/angle of the navigation/maps - things which ALL makers do no issues.

I mean, I love the car, but some of the things annoy me more and more.

and people still pay for FSD which probably will never happen

 

[Jason71]

Tesla cannot get Auto high beam, auto self Parking, auto wipers - the actions which were done perfectly fine in 2015 reg Ford Mondeo (!!!), cannot assemble car without rattles appearing in first 6 months of using it, again, perfected in Mondeo which cost HALF the price of Model 3.
then they cannot/refuse to make silent Auto Pilot on/off and proper zoom/angle of the navigation/maps - things which ALL makers do no issues.

I mean, I love the car, but some of the things annoy me more and more.

and people still pay for FSD which probably will never happen

Its funny you don't come across as the sort of person who gets annoyed easily.

 

[yessuz]

Its funny you don't come across as the sort of person who gets annoyed easily.

i don't. it's just maybe disappointment and slight small things which drips in )

 

[Steerpike]

My previous car, a BMW, had self park and I never used it, and I have not used it in either of my Teslas, however, it is surprising and disappointing that none of the Teslas can do what Audi, BMW, and Ford seem to manage very well.

 

[Hellayella01]

Tesla have put all their eggs in one basket with the “Vision only” approach and ditching radar.

Vision + Radar is the way, but then again I’m not a Tesla engineer so what do I know?

 

[Durzel]

Radar is slated to come back. Tesla have filed a patent for a high resolution radar earlier this year. I would not be surprised to see it appear along with the higher resolution cameras from Samsung as part of the HW4 upgrade.

 

[Strategium]

Tesla have put all their eggs in one basket with the “Vision only” approach and ditching radar.

Vision + Radar is the way, but then again I’m not a Tesla engineer so what do I know?

I have had my M3 with FSD for almost 3 years now and after a few underwhelming initial experiences with trying out autopark I basically ignored it and never used it. Until - by chance I decided to try it again recently after installing software update 2022.28.1 and to my surprise it worked perfectly! I mean it parked my car accurately and swiftly into the space I wanted and I have to say I could not have done it any faster or better myself - which was very much not the case when I had tried it previously. I have since tried it again several times with similar success, but all of these examples were in a parking garage and involved putting the car into a vacant spot between two other cars. I haven't tried other scenarios or parallel parking. Anyone else noticed a radical improvement with autopark since moving to vision only? In contrast I have found auto lane changes with FSD when driving on the motorway working less well since I now installed 2022.28.2

 

[SalisburySam]

Radar is slated to come back. Tesla have filed a patent for a high resolution radar earlier this year. I would not be surprised to see it appear along with the higher resolution cameras from Samsung as part of the HW4 upgrade.

Radar to come back, but not to Teslas. The new radar is for the robot to aid its navigation around your home. After 3 years there will be a software update to TeslaVision disabling the radar and using only the robots cameras (eyes). It’s called progress.

 

[MrBadger]

Tesla have put all their eggs in one basket with the “Vision only” approach and ditching radar.

Vision + Radar is the way, but then again I’m not a Tesla engineer so what do I know?

Vision only autopark is, in the grand scheme of things a very recent innovation for Tesla. Previously it only used the ultrsonics. IMHO, vision is an improvement in that it now does sometimes allow you to park in a lined space - previously it would only park between two other cars, or park up some steps with walled sides...

 

[WllXM]

Vision only autopark is, in the grand scheme of things a very recent innovation for Tesla. Previously it only used the ultrsonics. IMHO, vision is an improvement in that it now does sometimes allow you to park in a lined space - previously it would only park between two other cars, or park up some steps with walled sides...

Having tried it over the weekend, I believe it still requires a car in front for parallel parking unfortunately.

 

[Zilla91]

Didn’t Musk say there was going to be an update to improve parking at the end of last month?

Tesla Is Finally Updating Its Autopark Feature by The End of This Month

Elon Musk has just announced on Twitter that the Autopilot/AI team at Tesla will be working on Tesla's Smart Summon and Autopark features, as well as its humanoid robot, Optimus. Autopilot is widely used by many Tesla owners worldwide while Autopark and Smart Summon are much lesser-used, due...

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