Tesla telling me I have to upgrade/pay for new S75 from S60

[SeaDoc]

According to OP Tesla agreed to the July delivery two weeks ago. It is only after the fact that they are imposing new costs on it.

I can't imagine that an extension was made without any written documentation provided about the risks inherent in such an extension. If Tesla clearly did not have anything in writing regarding this extension, the OP has the right to fight it. In the initial purchase/order agreement, there has to be something to protect Tesla regarding the extension/postponement of any delivery. Ask the Sales manager to show you - otherwise get him to pursue to Corporate to honor the original agreement.

 

[azred]

When I bought my S60 five months ago, bigger battery was $6500 at purchase and $9000 post-purchase. I didn't bite until it dropped to $2000 a few weeks ago and felt pretty smug. Now I see this thread. Wow.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

When I bought my S60 five months ago, bigger battery was $6500 at purchase and $9000 post-purchase. I didn't bite until it dropped to $2000 a few weeks ago and felt pretty smug. Now I see this thread. Wow.

Just to be clear, OP says he would be happy with getting the 60 at the original price.

 

[azred]

Just to be clear, OP says he would be happy with getting the 60 at the original price.

He was very clear. I'm still amazed. One person's great deal is another's rip-off.

 

[SteveGrey]

The company told OP that the upgrade would come at no cost to him, only to rescind that offer 2 weeks later (and reading between the lines, OP found out by being send the invoice, could be wrong here).

Yes, I only found out doing the math on the invoice sheet. Which was even more sneaky because the original contract was "before tax credit" dollars and the second invoice was "after tax credit." Granted its a simple $7500 subtraction, but still makes the numbers "look different," making it harder to notice without doing the math.

I can't imagine that an extension was made without any written documentation provided about the risks inherent in such an extension. If Tesla clearly did not have anything in writing regarding this extension, the OP has the right to fight it.

I was never given any kind of extension. I ordered in April and selected a July delivery. I "scheduled" delivery 3 months out. The DS told me usual "earliest delivery" is 4-6 weeks. So I only delayed an additional 4-6 weeks over the earliest delivery date.

I agree that if I wanted to delay delivery after order was posted, I would be subject to new pricing. However, I simply ordered in the given confines of the system. The Tesla reps also told me that the best way to get a desired delivery date was to order as early as possible (read as close to that allowable 3 month window). Now the DS is giving me the line that since I ordered with a 3 month delivery schedule, I should realize my price might change.

Just to be clear, OP says he would be happy with getting the 60 at the original price.

Yes, definitely. The extra 9KWH or so (I believe the actual number is close to this) between the 60 and 75 isn't worth 1500 bucks to me. The glass roof is fine, but definitely not worth close to $1500 or I would have selected it when I ordered. We are also getting an X100D with the same delivery date, the only real reason I'm not getting a Bolt plus the X is the lack of reliable long distance charging for my once every 3 year PCS moves. So the added battery power would be possibly helpful once every 3 years, which isn't worth $1500 for me.

 

[Zaphod]

Didn't catch if you were buying or leasing, but probably get more than $1500 in resale on the 75 over the 60.

 

[SteveGrey]

Didn't catch if you were buying or leasing, but probably get more than $1500 in resale on the 75 over the 60.

Buying and I plan to keep both the S and the X for around 10 years. It was really the only way I could justify $200k worth of cars. So resale is not a huge concern especially since 10 years down the road, both will be worth quite little I would imagine.

 

[azred]

Yes, I only found out doing the math on the invoice sheet. Which was even more sneaky because the original contract was "before tax credit" dollars and the second invoice was "after tax credit." Granted its a simple $7500 subtraction, but still makes the numbers "look different," making it harder to notice without doing the math.


I was never given any kind of extension. I ordered in April and selected a July delivery. I "scheduled" delivery 3 months out. The DS told me usual "earliest delivery" is 4-6 weeks. So I only delayed an additional 4-6 weeks over the earliest delivery date. ...


Yes, definitely. The extra 9KWH or so (I believe the actual number is close to this) between the 60 and 75 isn't worth 1500 bucks to me. The glass roof is fine, but definitely not worth close to $1500 or I would have selected it when I ordered. We are also getting an X100D with the same delivery date, the only real reason I'm not getting a Bolt plus the X is the lack of reliable long distance charging for my once every 3 year PCS moves. So the added battery power would be possibly helpful once every 3 years, which isn't worth $1500 for me.

The difference is about 72.6-62.4=10.2 according to wk057's work. I think we all understand you believe you are being ripped off and that's fine. However if those of us on the Model 3 waiting list can get an upgraded battery based on the cost you are facing, most of us will do back flips -- even if we don't need the additional range most of the time. Of course I understand you see the situation much differently than I do, especially since you intend to only use the 60 as a commuter car. I wish I had more faith in Tesla's ability to match Supercharger growth to car sales growth, but I am very concerned that I'd better plan for maximizing my home charges...and my battery size.

 

[SteveGrey]

The difference is about 72.6-62.4=10.2 according to wk057's work. I think we all understand you believe you are being ripped off and that's fine. However if those of us on the Model 3 waiting list can get an upgraded battery based on the cost you are facing, most of us will do back flips -- even if we don't need the additional range most of the time. Of course I understand you see the situation much differently than I do, especially since you intend to only use the 60 as a commuter car. I wish I had more faith in Tesla's ability to match Supercharger growth to car sales growth, but I am very concerned that I'd better plan for maximizing my home charges...and my battery size.

Fair enough on the extra KWH.

The fair thing to me still seems to be software limiting my battery to "60" vice "75." The question then comes down to whether it costs Tesla more than $1500 to do the software limitation after they have apparently stopped doing that. If it costs them more than the $1500 they would be "gifting" to me, it would seem to make sense to just include the upgraded capacity.

I also wouldn't be surprised if 5 years from now, the upgrade cost moves down to around $500 for the few remaining 60's on the road. That being the point when they realize few of those owners will ever pay for the upgrade even for $2k.

 

[SteveGrey]

I wish I had more faith in Tesla's ability to match Supercharger growth to car sales growth, but I am very concerned that I'd better plan for maximizing my home charges...and my battery size.

I agree somewhat with the sentiment. However, for my once every 3 year trek across the country for a long distance move (FL to CA is pretty common), the extra 30 miles is pretty negligible. Especially since charging rates near the top of the 75 are so much slower than the first 80% (which is the 60 capacity anyways). Granted there are some routes where those extra miles make a difference. But not $1500 of difference.

 

[MP3Mike]

Nothing was stopping Tesla from fulfilling this order, though. They had it in the system, they could have built the car during the period those cars were being built and stored it for one month like any normal car company would do. (And really, what parts are there to discontinue, the 60 badge?)

How do you know nothing was stopping them? Maybe they stopped making the parts as soon as they announced the changes, and they had more orders for those parts than parts available. If that is the case they have some poor parts inventory processes, but maybe they figured most people would be happy to pay the $1,500 extra to get the glass roof and 75kWh upgrade.

I'm pretty sure I have seen at least a couple other people report that Tesla was unable to build their metal roof car because of parts availability; I just don't recall them mentioning that they had to pay more.

 

[SteveGrey]

DS told me the only way to get the 60 with metal roof is to take delivery in June. Somehow I don't see how Tesla not wanting to store the completed vehicle for a month now becomes my problem. If it's cheaper for them to not store it for a month and instead give me the "free" battery capacity, it would seem to be a better choice to just give the glass roof and 75. Or the glass roof and 60. I fail to see how a tech company that can build FSD can't limit a battery pack a month after they intend to stop doing that.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

How do you know nothing was stopping them? Maybe they stopped making the parts as soon as they announced the changes, and they had more orders for those parts than parts available. If that is the case they have some poor parts inventory processes, but maybe they figured most people would be happy to pay the $1,500 extra to get the glass roof and 75kWh upgrade.

I'm pretty sure I have seen at least a couple other people report that Tesla was unable to build their metal roof car because of parts availability; I just don't recall them mentioning that they had to pay more.

Metal roof is one thing, but this is a software feature.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

DS told me the only way to get the 60 with metal roof is to take delivery in June. Somehow I don't see how Tesla not wanting to store the completed vehicle for a month now becomes my problem. If it's cheaper for them to not store it for a month and instead give me the "free" battery capacity, it would seem to be a better choice to just give the glass roof and 75. Or the glass roof and 60. I fail to see how a tech company that can build FSD can't limit a battery pack a month after they intend to stop doing that.

You are learning quickly that Tesla is, in fact, a giant bureaucracy clad in startup clothes.

 

[MP3Mike]

DS told me the only way to get the 60 with metal roof is to take delivery in June.

So you are saying that they will still deliver the car you ordered, but you would have to take delivery of it a month early? That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

If they were to make your car a month early and store it, what would you do if during that time it got damaged? Would you be OK with a repaired car? (Since they wouldn't be able to remake it.)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

So you are saying that they will still deliver the car you ordered, but you would have to take delivery of it a month early? That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

If they were to make your car a month early and store it, what would you do if during that time it got damaged? Would you be OK with a repaired car? (Since they wouldn't be able to remake it.)

If Tesla is unable to store a vehicle for a month, their logistics are seriously lacking. In Europe it is not unheard of to store new cars for half a year waiting for a lease to start. I mean, everyone has this service.

How else could you guarantee timely availability of the car, but by building it early...

 

[ZERO260]

I am starting to reluctantly agree with this view. My hesitation is that the buyers that order and delay delivery are typically gaming the system. I know, my perception, does not apply to everyone, etc. but the stories of those that had delayed orders and got AP1 for free or new features without paying the price increase are around. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose.

Once again, I think Tesla needs to totally remove the delayed delivery option. Or not more than a few weeks. There is no reason for an individual to order now and hold delivery for 3 months. It's a logistical nightmare

What other options were on the OPs car? The 75 and glass roof will help resale. If they didn't have the PUP, they also get the power gate which would also help resale.

There are reasons for delaying delivery with not having gaming the system in mind. I order days before the refresh was introduced. I wanted to delay for six months ( October 2016) to push delivery closer to end of year for finial reasons. I financed a portion of my with my home equity line of credit with a higher interest rate 4% and because it would be closer to tax time. I essentially had two loans primary loan at 1.49% and would only have to foot both notes until I filed my taxes recoupe my taxes incentives and pay off the home equity.

I ordered at that time because I knew price was increasing and did not know what the refresh would look like. I was offered the refresh with know increase in cost. I wound up pay extra anyway because I wanted a dark headliner that was originally coupled with an upgraded interior. They would not accept a 500$ change order to change from light to dark. When the refresh hit the dark headliner was decoupled. In order to get dark I had to change to the price book.

I said all of that because my order was 6 months out and it would not have affected there production to change the headliner they changed my order and the y said new price book applied. I essentially had to pay for the upgraded battery. I was very upset but am happy now.

 

[SeaDoc]

There is one advantage you do get, that is worth something if you comply and not cancel. If you do proceed, you'll be grandfathered to receive unlimited supercharging which is tied to you, not your car. If you cancel, the best you'll get is supercharging for the car alone. That to me is worth $1500 easily, as I intend to purchase another Tesla down the road and I want Free Supercharging as I retire in my Tesla, whichever Tesla I may drive...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

And let us not forget: OP ordered the 60 in April, selecting a July delivery from the available options on Tesla's ordering system.

If that is "gaming the system", sheesh... Tesla offered that ordering option and it is up to them to decide how to fulfill it (build early or build late but offer better at original price), but not honoring the original spec and price minimum is IMO not one of the kosher options. It may be a legal option (sure), but not a moral or a goodwill inducing one...

There is one advantage you do get, that is worth something, if you comply and not cancel. If you do proceed, you'll be grandfathered to receive unlimited supercharger which is tied to you, not your car. If you cancel, the best you'll get is supercharging for the car alone. That to me is worth $1500 easily, as I intend to purchase another Tesla down the road and I want Free Supercharging as I retire in my Tesla...

OP is buying a 100D at the same time, so he is getting that anyway.

Tesla is messing with a good customer here.

 

[Electric700]

DS told me the only way to get the 60 with metal roof is to take delivery in June. Somehow I don't see how Tesla not wanting to store the completed vehicle for a month now becomes my problem. If it's cheaper for them to not store it for a month and instead give me the "free" battery capacity, it would seem to be a better choice to just give the glass roof and 75. Or the glass roof and 60. I fail to see how a tech company that can build FSD can't limit a battery pack a month after they intend to stop doing that.

Can you escalate this to a sales / delivery manager? You shouldn't have to pay extra for the 75D with glass roof (that you mentioned in your original post). I think it should be an automatic upgrade, or they should be able to just keep your car on the lot for a month. They need to make it right. You may want to contact [email protected] about this as well.

You are learning quickly that Tesla is, in fact, a giant bureaucracy clad in startup clothes.

I disagree. Tesla is constantly improving their products. The software downgrade may be incompatible with hardware updates or because of other perceived risks (new car with old software).