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Tesla to J1772 Adapter?

TonyWilliams

Active Member
Jun 11, 2012
1,438
759
San Diego - Tesla powered Rav4 EV
The current North American Wall Connector has a 16 position rotary switch and two DIP switches. The manual says to always set the second DIP switch up. This is the switch that is used to require the Tesla digital signaling on the European Wall Connector. I have no idea if it does anything on the North American version.

If you own the Tesla HPWC Gen 2 charge station, it's perfectly fine to move the "forbidden" DIP switch to the other position. Just like the European version, the HPWC will immediately charge J1772 cars, instead of waiting up to 28 seconds for the charge to start.
 

cs13368

Member
Feb 4, 2017
13
1
USA
What would be wrong if I just installed multiple HPWC's and supplied UMC-J1772 adapters to anyone that wants to use them on a non-Tesla cars.

The HPWC stations would be purchased from Tesla and installed by our own electrician.

I would hope that in the future all locations that have HPWC's would have these adapters on hand but I am pretty sure that everyone will have to bring their own.

Pricing is still well within reason for a 5 stall charging station that can charge most all types of EV's.
5 - HPWC: ~$550.00 each
4 - UMC-J1772 adapter: ~$400.00
Total cost: ~$4350.00

This will take care of everyone for now and as more customers change over to Model 3's the HPWC's will already be in place. IMG_3871-500x500.jpg IMG_3872-500x500.jpg IMG_3748-500x500.jpg
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,518
5,462
What would be wrong if I just installed multiple HPWC's and supplied UMC-J1772 adapters to anyone that wants to use them on a non-Tesla cars.

The HPWC stations would be purchased from Tesla and installed by our own electrician.

I would hope that in the future all locations that have HPWC's would have these adapters on hand but I am pretty sure that everyone will have to bring their own.

Pricing is still well within reason for a 5 stall charging station that can charge most all types of EV's.
5 - HPWC: ~$550.00 each
4 - UMC-J1772 adapter: ~$400.00
Total cost: ~$4350.00

This will take care of everyone for now and as more customers change over to Model 3's the HPWC's will already be in place.View attachment 235193 View attachment 235194 View attachment 235195
Nothing is wrong with that, neither is using this adapter for your own home charger. What is debatable is a non-Tesla "freeloading" off Tesla's destination charge network using such an adapter.
 
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stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,518
5,462
It seems that you're debating that Tesla charging infrastructure is "better". I agree.

That doesn't make the THOUSANDS of charge stations that Nissan (mostly), BMW and VW have installed to be unworthy of Tesla owners (who likely use the equipment quite regularly).

As to cost to the consumer, that's all over the place. I believe my "free" Supercharger access was $2500. To use the local Nissan provided CHAdeMO charger with my Tesla is $14.95 per month and ten cents per minute. I actually use it all the time with my 2012 Toyota Rav4 EV (and Toyota never did squat for EV infrastructure).

Listen, I get that people have positions on this. My position is simple... as long as Tesla is providing adapters to use Nissan and other competing auto manufacturers' charging equipment, it takes some imaginitive indignation to get too upset IMHO.
I said this a bunch of times. J1772 is an industry standard. It's expected that Tesla comes with the adapter because all public level 2 chargers (not funded by any automaker) uses this standard. If the automaker did not want other brands charging at their funded chargers, they necessarily have to rely on other types of access control (key card, payment, personnel activation, dealership location, signage). They certainly do.

On the flip side, Tesla uses a proprietary connector (and on superchargers the DC protocol; on newer locked HPWCs the proprietary signaling) as a form of access control. That's what allows them to provide the destination charging network with no payment or access card associated with it.

I think it's pretty straight forward why the scenarios are not the same.

As for why it's problematic (and why Tesla didn't just install all destination chargers as J1772 in the first place, which they could have done immediately from the start), I discussed here, so won't rehash:
Speculation - New charging plug?

Basically the "thousands" of chargers you talk about for the non-Tesla brands are mainly installed at dealerships/service centers, which are not convenient places for charging. Contrast this with Tesla where they are mainly installed at "destinations".

I think the point is moot though. It seems going forward Tesla would be doing the same exact thing as in Europe, where the destination chargers will have the proprietary charging mode to block non-Tesla's from using the network. In Europe they used a type 2 socket, so the charging mode is how they do access control (same ratio: at minimum 2 Tesla-only chargers per 1 non-Tesla charger).
 
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Brovane

Member
Sep 7, 2016
255
282
Orange County, CA
Nothing is wrong with that, neither is using this adapter for your own home charger. What is debatable is a non-Tesla "freeloading" off Tesla's destination charge network using such an adapter.

If the owner of the business is paying for the electricity and installation of the charger, how is it "freeloading"?
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,518
5,462
If the owner of the business is paying for the electricity and installation of the charger, how is it "freeloading"?
Tesla donates all the chargers plus some or all of the installation costs. If the owner opts for it, Tesla will also provide free J1772 stations (plus some/all of installation costs) in a 2:1 ratio (2 Tesla-only, 1 J1772). The location is also given visibility by Tesla listing it as a destination charger in their website and the screen when Tesla owners search for a charging spot. The implication is that the Tesla-only chargers are reserved for mutual customers.

Tesla previously did not have a specific enforcement for this (no contract or other control) since nobody was making adapters to charge non-Teslas on the destination network (other than very rare DIY types). Now Tesla's latest destination charger HPWCs have a mode to block out non-Teslas (seems to have been designed in as a solution for Europe which does not use a proprietary connector).

More discussion on the new mode here:
Roadster on destination charging doesn't work outside of North America

As for why it's problematic and actually hurts the spread of infrastructure to allow non-Teslas to charge on the destination charging network (without any contribution by the non-Tesla manufacturer), see my post here:
Speculation - New charging plug?
 
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Brovane

Member
Sep 7, 2016
255
282
Orange County, CA
Tesla donates all the chargers plus some or all of the installation costs. If the owner opts for it, Tesla will also provide free J1772 stations (plus some/all of installation costs) in a 2:1 ratio (2 Tesla-only, 1 J1772). The location is also given visibility by Tesla listing it as a destination charger in their website and the screen when Tesla owners search for a charging spot. The implication is that the Tesla-only chargers are reserved for mutual customers.

Tesla previously did not have a specific enforcement for this (no contract or other control) since nobody was making adapters to charge non-Teslas on the destination network (other than very rare DIY types). Now Tesla's latest destination charger HPWCs have a mode to block out non-Teslas (seems to have been designed in as a solution for Europe which does not use a proprietary connector).

More discussion on the new mode here:
Roadster on destination charging doesn't work outside of North America

As for why it's problematic and actually hurts the spread of infrastructure to allow non-Teslas to charge on the destination charging network (without any contribution by the non-Tesla manufacturer), see my post here:
Speculation - New charging plug?

That great, but it still isn't freeloading when the owner of the business is paying for the electricity. Your use of the term "freeloading" speaks of some type of EV snobbery on your part.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,518
5,462
That great, but it still isn't freeloading when the owner of the business is paying for the electricity. Your use of the term "freeloading" speaks of some type of EV snobbery on your part.
I don't know if "freeloading" is the right term. In a sense, I am saying other manufacturers are "freeloading" off Tesla's network, not necessarily the individual owners. I'm not overly concerned about the individual actions, but rather the overall impact on the spread of infrastructure if other manufacturers can take for a matter of fact that they can rely on Tesla's destination charge network without building their own.

I think the 2:1 ratio that Tesla is doing works well. Enough to have goodwill to the rest of the EV community, while ensuring there is enough infrastructure to cover Tesla's own needs (which will only be expanding drastically with Model 3).

As for my personal feelings, I feel EV drivers that pull up to a charger of another manufacturer (typically this is at a dealer in the general case) and then become indignant when they are refused the charge are the more "entitled" ones. I wouldn't pull up to another manufacturer branded charger and expect to be able to use it simply because I have an adapter to do so.
 
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hcsharp

Active Member
Jun 7, 2011
3,400
1,410
Vermont
That great, but it still isn't freeloading when the owner of the business is paying for the electricity. Your use of the term "freeloading" speaks of some type of EV snobbery on your part.
The cost of the electricity is by far the smallest component of the overall expense of a Destination charger. In addition most Destinations state that the chargers are for patrons so they generally recover much more than the cost of the electricity.

Tesla has been very generous to install a J1772 charger for every two Tesla proprietary stations. They deserve a lot of goodwill for that. They have also said that every manufacturer needs to step up to the plate to produce electric cars and infrastructure. Eventually the other carmakers will build EVs but they will never contribute to infrastructure if their drivers can use Tesla's chargers.
 

ccutrer

Active Member
Sep 3, 2015
1,348
1,228
Eagle Mountain, UT
If finally bit last week, and got my two wall connectors in master/slave configuration on a 60A circuit to charge a Model X 90D and a '15 Leaf via JDapter Stub. I can definitely confirm that with DIP switch 2 up ("Normal", as labeled inside the wall connector), the Leaf takes ~20s to start charging, but with it down ("Legacy"), it charges immediately. @TonyWilliams one oddity that you may be able to shed some light on is that if I have the Tesla charging at the full 48A, but then plug the other connector into the JDapter Stub (which is not connected to the Leaf) the Tesla will immediately drop to 24A (or ~20s later, when DIP switch 2 is up). If the second wall connector is actually connected to the Leaf, it will properly load share with the Tesla gradually using more and more until the Leaf is at 100%. I can't remember exactly, but it seemed like the Tesla only got up to 42-46A in that case. My conclusion is that when connected to the JDapter Stub the wall connector can detect something, but is confused by no active charge session so just asks for an even split of available load. I tried both digital and analog communications, and switched which one is master/slave, but there was no change. It took me long enough just to diagnose that it was the JDapter Stub causing the drop in load! It's not a deal killer, it just means I need to remember to disconnect the JDapter Stub from the Tesla Wall Connector if I want/need to charge the Model X more quickly.
 

TonyWilliams

Active Member
Jun 11, 2012
1,438
759
San Diego - Tesla powered Rav4 EV
As for my personal feelings, I feel EV drivers that pull up to a charger of another manufacturer (typically this is at a dealer in the general case) and then become indignant when they are refused the charge are the more "entitled" ones. I wouldn't pull up to another manufacturer branded charger and expect to be able to use it simply because I have an adapter to do so.

Your comments stating that non-Tesla charge stations are predominantly at "dealers" is just silly and factually incorrect. Yes, Nissan and BMW dealers (and even some GM dealers) have some charge stations at some dealers (Nissan might have stations at most dealers). But, to suggest that this is even close to the majority of public EV charging is simply wrong.

Yes, you could find some locations (particularly in areas with low EV adoption) that the ONLY charge station for a million miles is a Nissan dealer, for instance.

I absolutely agree with you on the situation presented in the quote above. Don't expect to stroll into ANY location where the charge station is either held out for public use or is directly or indirectly owned by a competing auto manufacturer.

Obviously, Tesla owners currently ignore this counsel, as there are plenty of Tesla cars plugged in at Nissan dealers on PlugShare using their Tesla supplied J1772 and CHAdeMO adaptors. Hopefully, folks with the JDapter Stub will have a higher threshold of EV civility by not plugging in at a Tesla Service Center with their Toyota Plug-In Prius or other non-Tesla car. Sadly, we both know that statement is merely a hope.

As to the repeated shills that Tesla "paid for all the destination charge stations", that's obviously not the case, either.
 
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TonyWilliams

Active Member
Jun 11, 2012
1,438
759
San Diego - Tesla powered Rav4 EV
The cost of the electricity is by far the smallest component of the overall expense of a Destination charger. In addition most Destinations state that the chargers are for patrons so they generally recover much more than the cost of the electricity.

Your statement concerning electricity cost appears to be intended to support your false narrative that Tesla is supplying the majority of the costs for their donated charge stations. I would argue that electricity is by far the most expensive component of overall EV charging costs. It's not even close, and that includes just about ANY charge station, Tesla or otherwise.

At my home (or a hotel) here in sunny San Diego, where electricity can be over 40 cents per kWh, filling up just ONE Tesla car in ONE overnight charge could easily be a double digit dollar amount. Every time.

What does an HPWC / "Wall Connector" cost Tesla? $200-$300? Let's say $300 for something they retail for a bit over $500. That same charge station can EASILY surpass $300 in electricity cost in just a month. How many years do you expect the lifespan to be?

Even in the absolute lowest cost electricity areas, like Washington state, with 6-7 cent per kWh electricity, just one fillup in a 75kWh Tesla is still $5. If that charge station is only used to add just 100 miles of range per day (about 33kWh), then the cost is still about $2 per day in the lowest cost area in the US.

At a $300 cost to Tesla for the HPWC at a use rate of $2 electricity per day is some real easy math:

300 / 2 = 150 days for the LOWEST cost electricity to equal the charge station cost to Tesla

300 / 10 = 30 days for a HIGH electricity cost area to equal the charge station cost to Tesla

Your statement is blatantly false, since the lifespan of the Tesla charge station is most assuredly more than 30-150 days.


Tesla has been very generous to install a J1772 charger for every two Tesla proprietary stations. They deserve a lot of goodwill for that.

My understanding is that it wasn't goodwill that started the J1772 program, but the insistance of various government rules or regulations. In my coast-to-coast travels over 70,000 miles in my Model S, I've actually never seen a Tesla supplied J1772.
 
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TonyWilliams

Active Member
Jun 11, 2012
1,438
759
San Diego - Tesla powered Rav4 EV
... but then plug the other connector into the JDapter Stub (which is not connected to the Leaf) the Tesla will immediately drop to 24A (or ~20s later, when DIP switch 2 is up). If the second wall connector is actually connected to the Leaf, it will properly load share with the Tesla gradually using more and more until the Leaf is at 100%. I can't remember exactly, but it seemed like the Tesla only got up to 42-46A in that case. My conclusion is that when connected to the JDapter Stub the wall connector can detect something, but is confused by no active charge session so...

If your JDapter Stub has a green dot on the lower front portion of the white plug, then your unit has some electronics that may be confusing the Tesla load sharing software.

I would leave the DIP switch in the "legacy J1772" position for your LEAF. Then, you have an option for us (or you) to have a switch in the white plug that allows for either Legacy J1772 or Tesla logic. If you open our white plug, you need to add a simple switch between the green 18 gauge wire from the ground pin, before our electronics bundle that is going to the pilot signal pin.

1) Closed switch position on JDapter Stub is for "Tesla Logic" for 2nd Gen Wall Connectors only

2) Open switch position on JDapter Stub is "Legacy J1772" for 2nd Gen units and all other Tesla charge stations, including UMC / Molbile Connector.

Hope this helps.
 
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bro1999

Active Member
Apr 26, 2016
2,092
2,035
Maryland
Quick Charge Power is running a $160 promo on the Jdapter Stub. Input promo code "Jdapter239" at checkout, and it'll knock $160 off the list price. Combined with USPS priority mail shipping, total should come to $253 + tax (with tax being only applicable if you live in CA). I picked one up....at that price, it is worth it! The promo code was supposed to only be valid yesterday, but it still works as of 5 minutes ago.

JDapter Stub
 

ccutrer

Active Member
Sep 3, 2015
1,348
1,228
Eagle Mountain, UT
Quick Charge Power is running a $160 promo on the Jdapter Stub. Input promo code "Jdapter239" at checkout, and it'll knock $160 off the list price. Combined with USPS priority mail shipping, total should come to $253 + tax (with tax being only applicable if you live in CA). I picked one up....at that price, it is worth it! The promo code was supposed to only be valid yesterday, but it still works as of 5 minutes ago.

JDapter Stub
@&$! ;)

Of COURSE after waiting 7 months to buy it, 30 days later it's nearly half off!

Well, at least I'm highly satisfied with it.

Somehow I doubt @TonyWilliams will do a price adjustment, since Tesla isn't doing one for my wall connectors that also dropped $50 each in the same period.
 

bro1999

Active Member
Apr 26, 2016
2,092
2,035
Maryland
@&$! ;)

Of COURSE after waiting 7 months to buy it, 30 days later it's nearly half off!

Well, at least I'm highly satisfied with it.

Somehow I doubt @TonyWilliams will do a price adjustment, since Tesla isn't doing one for my wall connectors that also dropped $50 each in the same period.

The price of being an early adopter. ;)
I bought my Bolt only $1k off MSRP, and now people are getting $4-6k off. Meh, whatever.
 

bro1999

Active Member
Apr 26, 2016
2,092
2,035
Maryland
If finally bit last week, and got my two wall connectors in master/slave configuration on a 60A circuit to charge a Model X 90D and a '15 Leaf via JDapter Stub. I can definitely confirm that with DIP switch 2 up ("Normal", as labeled inside the wall connector), the Leaf takes ~20s to start charging, but with it down ("Legacy"), it charges immediately. @TonyWilliams one oddity that you may be able to shed some light on is that if I have the Tesla charging at the full 48A, but then plug the other connector into the JDapter Stub (which is not connected to the Leaf) the Tesla will immediately drop to 24A (or ~20s later, when DIP switch 2 is up). If the second wall connector is actually connected to the Leaf, it will properly load share with the Tesla gradually using more and more until the Leaf is at 100%. I can't remember exactly, but it seemed like the Tesla only got up to 42-46A in that case. My conclusion is that when connected to the JDapter Stub the wall connector can detect something, but is confused by no active charge session so just asks for an even split of available load. I tried both digital and analog communications, and switched which one is master/slave, but there was no change. It took me long enough just to diagnose that it was the JDapter Stub causing the drop in load! It's not a deal killer, it just means I need to remember to disconnect the JDapter Stub from the Tesla Wall Connector if I want/need to charge the Model X more quickly.

So to sum it up, even with the newer HPWC Tesla charging stations, the Jdapter stub works on a non-Tesla no matter what the switch is set to? Only diff is it takes a few seconds longer to start charging on one of the settings? Good enough for me!
 

ccutrer

Active Member
Sep 3, 2015
1,348
1,228
Eagle Mountain, UT
So to sum it up, even with the newer HPWC Tesla charging stations, the Jdapter stub works on a non-Tesla no matter what the switch is set to? Only diff is it takes a few seconds longer to start charging on one of the settings? Good enough for me!
Yup. I've been quite happy with it. If you keep the stub plugged into one the other won't ever take full load, but eventually it'll work its way up to 42A. I also noticed that when the Tesla is fully charged it shows that it's only claiming 6A. I'm curious if this is the same with another Tesla plugged in (any connected car is guaranteed a minimum of 6A, also preventing other vehicles from claiming the full 48A).
 

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