I would like to nominate this for funniest post of the year.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Highly unlikely. Who wants their young kid straddling a pack of substandard batteries?
Carl Raymond
Active Member
Mmm, but this thing uses cells, the one commodity that has held them back. To date, cars have outranked powerwalls in the pecking order due to higher value add.
Maybe the mini quad uses LFP and supplies of those are no longer so precious. It’s hard to adjust mentally - frivolity with such a traditionally prized good.
Bottom line, everything Elon does is a step towards Mars, either technologically, or financially, or by winning hearts and minds.
It may be as simple as cardboard. Experience with boxed goods. Bot will be such an item.
Tes La Ferrari
Active Member
Does this have a weight / height limit ? Ie could a 200lb adult ride this?
Many Canadians would make the trip and quarantine for 14 days for this.
Asking for a friend.
Party pooper mod: if anyone wants to discuss the Cyberquad for kids, they can create their own thread. And take the whistle with them too. So others don’t have to scroll through pages of jokes and chit-chat.
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Edit: on second thought, go ahead and discuss the Cyberquad. Just don't go overboard.
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Edit: on second thought, go ahead and discuss the Cyberquad. Just don't go overboard.
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MartinAustin
Active Member
Literally the funniest and on-point thing I've seen out of TMC. Still laughing out loud hours later
Based on the preliminary opinion on patentability, the claims 12-14 are patentable. This isn’t the last word (not in the least because this is a PCT applicatio. Patentability is decided on a national level (or regional, like A European patent). Tesla makes use of the services of less than competent patent firm. This application is yet another flawed one. In my opinion they should find another one.
The first claim is a free beer claim, a rookie mistake. In a claim you have to state the minimum requirements to achieve the goal stated in the description of the application. Those requirements are technical measures. Here the claim has as a measure: if something works, it is covered by this claim.
I think they had established that at least in the US, it was very unlikely that they infringed any other patents?
The most interesting part of the video IMO was how they were developing and testing the alloy, it suggests a nearly infinite array of possibilities with perhaps years or decades of improvement in the alloy similar to what is happening with steel.
Each incremental improvement in the alloy may only save a bit of money and a bit of weight, or reduce the percentage of incorrect casts..
But it is yet another area where Tesla can keep improving at a fairly rapid clip.
So this might be the first of many patents, I think the idea is to attempt to patent all viable combinations, before a competitor does.
If they don't have a good patent firm, I agree they should get one.
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
patent offices don’t deal with that. Infringement is about what you actually do, which a patent office has no knowledge about anyway. Prior art found in during patent examination could potentially be infringed, IF
- it is within the scope of an independent claim in the prior art patent as (eventually) granted
- it is still in force ( not lapsed due to non-payment of renewal fees; not revoked during an opposition procedure)
- valid in the country where you want to use the invention
There may also prior art not found during the stage where the examiner searches for prior art.
great video. I did learn stuff.
Yes, that is what is often done. However, your earlier patent application also becomes prior art and that subsequent invention will also have to be New (not hard) and Involve an inventive step (harder, especially if the prior art is your own work).
UkNorthampton
TSLA - 12+ startups in 1
Tesla related: Any EV problem has the ability to
1) Slow down EV adoption, feed the FUD (negative for Tesla)
2) Reinforce (especially to fleet buyers) the advantages Tesla have (positive for Tesla)
This leads me to ponder if this is a limitation of pouch cells as currently manufactured? The competition is going to need LFP or cylinders, huge potential stress for competitors showing how Tesla has really thought things through.
page 7 of the linked manual
"This Warranty Does Not Cover: In addition to the limitations described in this New Car Limited Warranty, this high voltage battery warranty does not cover any damage to, malfunction of, or excessive loss of capacity of the high-voltage battery directly or indirectly caused by, due to, or resulting from abuse, misuse, negligence, accident, improper maintenance, operation, storage, or transport, including but not limited to any of the following:
• Failure to observe the provisions relating to the operation, treatment and care of the vehicle (including information regarding the care and charging of the high-voltage battery) set out in the Owner’s Manual."
This is an image on twitter ( ), unable to verify if this is part of the Taycan Owner's Manual, but looks plausible:-
Stationary periods of 2 weeks plus:
Not in direct sunlight (even if plugged in)
If you can't plug in, keep the ambient temperature between 0 and 20 Celsius or 32 to 68 Fahrenheit - good luck with that (especially at an airport)
hacer
Active Member
Car and Driver (and others) give a real-world range of 280 miles while the EPA range is 225.
225/(1 - 0.2) = 281.25 so it's nearly an exact fit to explain the range discrepancy.
Just me, and I go off topic all the time, but I really don't need to know the warranty details of the Toycan. Its enough to understand that Porsche has a huge battery recall on pouch related batteries. The real story to me is that yet another pouch battery issue has arisen. How many of the EV battery plants out there are planned for pouch batteries vs cylindrical?
UkNorthampton
TSLA - 12+ startups in 1
Even though I put the detail up there (largely to try & stop lots of back and forth), I agree that those are the main points (although Porsche MAY have a recall is probably more accurate).
Pouch-cell risk isn't a risk for Tesla, except that it may be food for general EV Fud. As far as share prices, Tesla excecution, Tesla has again shown it's made the right choices from First-Principles reasoning rather than existing parts bin/supplier availability.
Those who rely on pouch cells (car & cell manufacturers) are in for a shock in my opinion.
Yes, it was interesting to read and then re-read the various interviews with the team that sussed out the battery fire issues and worked out a solution to manage heat in the battery packs and simultaneously rejected pouch as dangerous.
Knowing that...why would you still commit billions to pouch batteries if you are LG/SK GM VW etc.
Prismatic LFP would be a far better solution for GM/Ford/VW etc but I guess a patent has held up the production of those til 2022 in the USA. At this point I cannot see the battery capacity to enable meaningful EV production in non pouch battery formats outside of Tesla. A few influencer type people raising a tirade against pouch batteries and I think you'd redfine shopping experience for EV purchase to those cars with non pouch packs.
There might be something to the Porsche battery story.
For what it is worth, analog voltage measurements have to be converted to digital format to process them in a computer. The device used to do this is an analog to digital converter.
The digital output has a finite number of discrete steps. The number of steps that the device is capable of are typically smeared over the measurement range.
If you use the same device to measure 800V as is used for 400V, the step size will be twice as large - perhaps too coarse for ideal operation.
For what it is worth, analog voltage measurements have to be converted to digital format to process them in a computer. The device used to do this is an analog to digital converter.
The digital output has a finite number of discrete steps. The number of steps that the device is capable of are typically smeared over the measurement range.
If you use the same device to measure 800V as is used for 400V, the step size will be twice as large - perhaps too coarse for ideal operation.
petit_bateau
Active Member
Good thinking. It might also explain why such a small extra cost solves it. Does anyone know how many bits the Audi charger unit operates on vs the Porsche one ? Which would be a piece of public-domain evidence that might corroborate (or not) Alex's article.
(That Porsche warranty is ewk. On that basis no Porsche owner can ever park outside or take a long holiday. And they will need to re-read the Owners Manual substituting CAN and SHOULD with MUST and SHALL.)
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
Porsche owners are likely to be fairly influential in their neighbourhoods. They are all likely to be swapping to Teslas in the near future and won't hold back from telling everyone how much better their new Tesla is. Supercharger network being top of their list.
I'm not seeing an issue:
Gruber cuts out cells on Roadster blades to repair packs.
Roadster - ESS Main Battery Pack Services 2 | Gruber Motors
Electrically, cells within a group charge in parallel. Linguistically, all cells charge simultaneously which is synonymous with 'in parallel' as opposed to sequentially (or half of the 800V pack at a time to match 400V chargers which is not how this system works)
As to the process: Taycan is a 2p setup so they can cut out the problem cell and its mate, then jumper around them. If the pack is under rated in terms of capacity, then this mod can be hidden by a software calibration tweak.
As to the potential root cause: When a pack is nearing full charge, the key parameter is the voltage on the highest SOC cell. The charger must throttle back current to ensure this cell does not exceed design spec. If the charger output exceeds the BMS balance capability, then the cells will be overcharged.
Possibly, the charger does not regulate current output well enough (inherent issue or poor regulation from mains fluctuations).
A current reading of less than its actual output would be my guess. Resolution of measurement (precision) is less critical than accuracy (or at least the correct bias of accuracy). Better for the output to be undercurrent/ undervoltage than over.
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jkirkwood001
Active Member
I would just find this sad for the Mission. Diess and Elon are sympatico, which means his ouster would be anti- carbon reduction for VW. Notwithstanding VW's dieselgate scandal, they are one of the only OEMs truly making a serious effort to switch to pure EVs.
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