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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Investment grade status … and stock doesn’t react, at all. Just like I predicted and was pilloried for saying such here.
I don't think I weighed in on this on one side or the other because I was skeptical it would make a huge difference.

That said, if there is an effect, it'll be more gradual as the percentage of institutional investors increases.

But... so far here is the score card for predictions Tesla will pop this year.
  • Giga Austin and Giga Berlin come online: Nope
  • Shanghai opens production back up: Nope
  • The Split (vote): Nope
  • The Split (actual): Nope
  • Q3 P&D: Nope
  • Upgrade to investment grade: Nope
  • 4680 production ramp: Nope
Not really predicted to cause Tesla to pop but were reasons people claimed Tesla was down:
  • End of the chip shortage: Nope
  • Battery Supply secured: Nope
TBD:
  • End of Twitter Saga
  • Q3 results
  • Semi production start
  • Q4 results
It's becoming increasingly clear that Tesla will not make it's big run until the Cybertruck is launched.
 
6. Competition starts to bite into Tesla margins and so Tesla cuts prices as the excess demand is run off - the GM of 30% declines to 20% over the next 5-years, and that includes income from NoA and FSD in automotive.

The counter argument is that we are in the steep part of the EV adoption curve, and there are 2 competing factors, 1. Increased EV demand, 2. Increased EV production.

When supply catches up to demand we will start to see some competition and lower margins.

I don't think Tesla can maintain 30% GMs forever, but I am unsure how long they can maintain them,
There are multiple strategies to maintain margin:-
  • Lowering build costs
  • Moving cars to markets with more demand.
  • Opening new markets.
  • Building cheaper Gen3 models.
I'm not worried about China, simply because in the short term the "work-around" solution is simply to export more cars.
I do think the Chinese market is more competitive and less able to sustain the combination of high volumes and high margins.

A cheaper designed in China Gen3 car is an important part of the solution.

Predicting the future is hard. I would l probably start with GMs of 30% in 2023 and reduce by 1-2% per year. In 2030, we might be in the 15-20% range, but I expect to have working Robotaxis, Robots and more diversified income streams.

IMO car margins will hold up well enough to build the eco-system of diversified income streams.
 
I don’t want plot twist… I want this to end. (Unpopular option, perhaps).
I want Twitter to kill the deal

I want Elon to sue and get $1B from Twitter

I want Elon to pump all the money back in to $TSLA


Would be a genius move on Elon's part, Sell at $1000 pre-split, buy back at $240 post-split increasing his share count, just like all of us are trying to do here.
 
I understand and agree with your points. Reducing price is also reducing GM% unless BoM magic happens. Let me put some big simplifications and some big ifs on the table to try and get a grasp of the problem/opportunity here. Before I try and run a scenario in my 10-year model lets first try to agree what it might look like. Here is a first sketch as I would appreciate comment.

HISTORY
1. The relevant BEV market is split 1/3 : 1/3 : 1/3 between USA, China, and Europe. (sorry about the little'uns, but I need to simplify)
2. It was only a few years ago that Tesla really had no competition in China, and only a couple of years ago that Tesla opened the Shanghai factory.
3. During the last 2-3 years Tesla has been raising prices by $10k-$15k and in the process has gone from maybe 20% GM to maybe 30% GM.
4. During those few years Tesla BEV competition in China have gone from only being viable in non-Tesla segments to becoming viable and competitve at lower prices in Tesla-segments. So it takes 2-3 years for China to build capacity faster than Tesla does, and to play sufficient catch-up in product terms, for 1/3 of the relevant market.
5. US and European competition really aren't making a difference and so are not directly interesting to this analysis.

PROJECTION
- The Chinese continue to build capacity faster than Tesla and they progressively push harder at exports to Europe and USA. Within 2-years they either fully into Europe (or USA) or halfway into both. Within 4-years they are fully into both (i.e. they can overbuild at the rate of 1/3 in two years). Ignore incentve programs as they will come and go.

6. Competition starts to bite into Tesla margins and so Tesla cuts prices as the excess demand is run off - the GM of 30% declines to 20% over the next 5-years, and that includes income from NoA and FSD in automotive.
7. But Tesla are then able to hold BoM costs stable and to maintain a prestige brand position with GM% then steady at 20%. (so still unusually good)
8. But this also has a numerical effect on Tesla caacity build in the later years, with the max capacity build rate becoming capped at 2m/yr due to competition effects. This would mean Tesla reaches max 16m/yr in 2030, not 20m/yr, i.e. this effect starts to cut in as the GM% stabilises, likely due to internal Tesla discipline.

- One point to notice is that I assume the Chinese also in effect practice price discipline. There is however nothing to prevent them continuing to overbuild capacity and wiping out the entire market. But my guess is China would back off, likely holding about 30-40m/yr of the global market in 2030. This would leave 16m/yr for Tesla and 24m-34m/yr for everybody else (assuming constant market of 80m/yr).
- Ignore RoboTaxi completely for this examination.

Any comments on this as I might run it at the weekend to explore the share price implications. ?
Tesla isn't a car company. I 100% expect margins to compress somewhat in 3-5 years once EVs are clearly crossing over 50% marketshare. I expect them to comress further after that.

I also expect Energy to be heading into the steep part of it's S-curve 3-5 years from now and blow away automotive revenues and margins by a good bit.

I looked up the Megapack earlier this week. They're about $1.9M a pop and gave a 2yr backlog for orders. Not precisely sure about the cost to manufacture these, but it's certainly<$500k. 10% marketshare of that world is TRILLIONS.
 
My view of Tesla's price action is that Twitter has very little to do with it. The primary concerns are growth and margins and I don't see how the Twitter deal really influences those metrics. We're talking about the last 10 days or so spanning from right before P&D numbers to now. Elon's already sold enough stock to cover the purchase of Twitter and I doubt anyone is front running more sales from Elon.

I believe 90% of the price action is due to China demand concerns. China is a big market for Tesla and China's backlog has cratered. The implications are that growth in China will only come with margin contraction. The dollars strength makes it incredible hard for Tesla to further reduce prices in China. As is, Tesla is getting 10% less per car than earlier this year due to the USD strength. I believe Tesla will pivot to exporting from China as the primary strategy and letting China sales slightly declined. Without China in the mix as part of the growth engine, can Tesla continue to grow 50% per year? That is why we saw the 20% haircut in one week in the stock price. Currently the backlog around the world sans China is strong. Tesla will try to maintain margin if at all possible. The U.S. EV credit also makes it unlikely that Tesla will give up margins in the near term.

I am an all in never sold stock holder since early 2020 and I bought materially more every day this week. This is because I believe Tesla price will recover in the mid to long term based primarily on faith that Tesla will deliver FSD. If not at the end of this year, by summer of 2023. As Elon said, Tesla is worth essential zero without FSD (an exaggeration with some truth to it) . My belief could turn out to be disastrous for my wealth but I do believe. The big question in FSD is are there problems that can't be solved that will prevent FSD from being used for driving on the road? Can FSD be a game changer in terms of driving experience and safety? The progress so far leads me to believe problems, if not all, are solvable.

I also see ways to overcome the China problem, namely the long rumored model 2. China's car market is a different market. Tesla currently competes with Mercedes, BMW, and lately higher end EVs from Chinese manufacturers. Tesla does not compete with lowered end offering from foreign and Chinese manufacturers. In the U.S., the consumers typically have more wealth and the model 3 competes with mass brands such as Honda and Toyota. In China Tesla is in the luxury car sector. Can Tesla make a profitable lower end car to fit the China market? In 2 to 3 years, I believe we will see a China only Tesla model.

Here are the catalysts that will spur a turnaround.

1) China demand comes back. If this is the case, all problems solved. You'll see the stock shoot up immediately.
2) Q4 exceeds expectations
3) Official Fed pivot to spur growth
4) FSD summer 2023

We do have the overhang of a possible deep recession, an escalation in the war or more oil shocks. It's not an easy time to be a Tesla investor.

Lastly, it will be quite interesting to see if Tesla announces a 5th Giga factory location this year. Either way, it will give us some insight into how Tesla sees the mid term demand.
 
For the customers who have already contracted for Semi's, i think it makes sense for Megachargers to be installed both at the warehouse/shipping point and the destination/store/distribution point. From what I've read, the Semi can get a 400 mile charge in just 30 minutes, so plug it in when it arrives and it's good to go after it's been loaded and unloaded.

I really really think this will be a game changer for commercial transportation... plus it's way cooler looking than any other truck on the road!