Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Ogre]

Can you link to that?

All I see for Ford is this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1608547675531776001

Just Ford.com the premium and select trims are both under $55k. Though at $54,975 I think the Premium trim will probably be difficult or impossible to find with an MSRP of under $55k due to options.

 

[MP3Mike]

So here's the deal:
An SUV is a light truck derivative which itself is a non-passenger vehicle defined by either off road capability and 6,000+ pound curb weight or cargo capacity.
Cargo capacity is satisfied by having three rows of seats where two rows fold.
That's why a three row Y gets the higher cap.

I would think the second row folding would qualify too:

Sport utility vehicle (SUV) means a light truck with an extended roof line to increase cargo or passenger capacity, cargo compartment open to the passenger compartment, and one or more rear seats readily removed or folded to facilitate cargo carrying.

But maybe that isn't the IRS definition.

 

[Ogre]

So here's the deal:
An SUV is a light truck derivative which itself is a non-passenger vehicle defined by either off road capability and 6,000+ pound curb weight or cargo capacity.
Cargo capacity is satisfied by having three rows of seats where two rows fold.
That's why a three row Y gets the higher cap.

HOWEVER
A front seat only vehicle (technically a van) also qualifies and only needs to be front seat only when initially sold.

So the ID4 likely qualifies because it’s over 6,000 pounds?

 

[thx1139]

So the ID4 likely qualifies because it’s over 6,000 pounds?

How much does Model Y LR 5 seater weigh?

 

[Ogre]

It occurs to me that these incentives might be why Tesla has been stockpiling Model Y packs in Texas.

Tesla has hundreds (maybe thousands) of 4680 packs stockpiled in Texas, presumably for the Model Y AWD. If Tesla were to start selling that SKU for $55k after the first of the year, it would be hugely popular.


Or it could just be me trying to fit a narrative to a couple unrelated things.

 

[thesmokingman]

CNBC has been all about Tesla today.

 

[mongo]

So the ID4 likely qualifies because it’s over 6,000 pounds?

Needs 6k and the full list of off road items.

I would think the second row folding would qualify too:


But maybe that isn't the IRS definition.

If the cargo area with second row up is larger than the passenger area, it's also a light truck/ SUV.
Note: van definition of CFR 40, 600 seems awefully wide, may be more applicable one elsewhere.

 

[AndrewZ]

The 7-seater Y qualifying for the $80k cap is a win in my eyes, I thought the entire Y lineup would be held to $55k and am entirely unsurprised to see the 5-seater in that slot

But now watch because if demand for the 7-seater increases because of the higher cap and production shifts, Tesla has a lot more room to increase prices on the 7-seat option beyond the measly +$3k

 

[FSDtester#1]

How much does Model Y LR 5 seater weigh?

4,363 lbs

Btw, the the S&P 500 volume is down to 25% of usual and Nasdaq is 50%...
Tsla is just under 100% increase over usual volume.

Edit: now over 200 million shares, over 100%

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

I think they were looking for this:

View attachment 890150

So Ford has two trims that could qualify, as long as you don't apply many/any options.

Except that A) that lowest trim Mach E is not being made right now and i believe Ford’s own time line for the base trim is 2024 and B) the price cap is not the listed MSRP, it’s the price at the time of the sale. Meaning dealership makes up take the premium trim over 55k.

The Mach E, is essentially completely locked out of the EV incentive until 2024 at the earliest

 

[GOVA]

Is the Cybertruck going to be included in this rebate? Asking for myself.

 

[MP3Mike]

Except that A) that lowest trim Mach E is not being made right now and i believe Ford’s own time line for the base trim is 2024 and

The Mach E, is essentially completely locked out of the EV incentive until 2024 at the earliest

With the IRA credit demand for the higher trims may fall off and they may start making the lower trims sooner.

B) the price cap is not the listed MSRP, it’s the price at the time of the sale. Meaning dealership makes up take the premium trim over 55k.

Wrong. It is the MSRP, it has nothing to do with the sales price: Topic B — Frequently Asked Questions About Income and Price Limitations for the New Clean Vehicle Credit | Internal Revenue Service

Q5. If the manufacturer/dealer offers incentives on the purchase, and the total purchase price drops below the manufacturer's suggested retail price limitation, will the vehicle be eligible for the new clean vehicles credit? (added December 29, 2022)​

A5. The credit limitations on the price of the vehicle are based on manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP), not the actual price you paid for the vehicle. See FAQ 2 for how to determine MSRP.

So any additional add ons like dealer fees, door protection, new car tree smell, etc crap that they love to add would potentially disqualify the $7500.... NICE!

No:

Q3. How will I know what the manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) is for a vehicle? (added December 29, 2022)​

A3. The MSRP will be on the vehicle information label attached to each vehicle on a dealer's premises. The MSRP for this purpose is the base retail price suggested by the manufacturer, plus the retail price suggested by the manufacturer for each accessory or item of optional equipment physically attached to the vehicle at the time of delivery to the dealer. It does not include destination charges or optional items added by the dealer, or taxes and fees.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

With the IRA credit demand for the higher trims may fall off and they may start making the lower trims sooner.



Wrong. It is the MSRP, it has nothing to do with the sales price: Topic B — Frequently Asked Questions About Income and Price Limitations for the New Clean Vehicle Credit | Internal Revenue Service

Pretty sure I saw information that was the exact opposite of this. I’ll try and find the source

 

[Unpilot]

Lots of puts @120

 

[wipster]

Alex: I regard that post as highly unethical. It puts me as Moderator, AND anyone considering purchasing or selling TSLA, in difficult positions. I have had to sit on my hands any number of times over the years; it is not easy but it is the correct thing to do. Thank you for your understanding.

Understood good rational. We'll just follow him to the Blue Bird.

 

[AndrewZ]

With the IRA credit demand for the higher trims may fall off and they may start making the lower trims sooner.



Wrong. It is the MSRP, it has nothing to do with the sales price: Topic B — Frequently Asked Questions About Income and Price Limitations for the New Clean Vehicle Credit | Internal Revenue Service





No:

Interesting wrinkle with this is discounts/incentives also not counting. So Tesla's current $7500 incentive couldn't be adjusted/used to lower the sales price to below the limit, it needs to be the legit sticker price.

 

[thesmokingman]

Shocker!!!

CNBC, was just mentioned via S3, Tesla was the MOST profitable short of 2022. But but...

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Ford has some Mach-E trims which qualify under the $55k limit.

Mach-e that is not both long-range and AWD qualifies.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Interesting wrinkle with this is discounts/incentives also not counting. So Tesla's current $7500 incentive couldn't be adjusted/used to lower the sales price to below the limit, it needs to be the legit sticker price.

Well, they'd just have to keep changing the MSRP, rather than discount. It would affect sales of demos though.

It's a good thing for buyers in a number of states, including Maine, because we have a property tax on vehicles that is based on MSRP.

 

[2daMoon]

Who am I to complain when we are up for the second day in a row, but I'll be happier when a 7%+ bump has a dollar gain with more than one digit to the left of the decimal point.

HODL (Hold On for Digits Left of decimal)