Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Words of HABIT]

None of the life cycle comparisons that I have seen between BEV and ICE take into account the transportation of petrol to their retail pumping stations for use. In Philadelphia, the collapsed section of I-95 due to tanker fire is just the latest example of what can go wrong transporting petrol. If only there was a better way. Oh, wait...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/12/us/philadelphia-i95-collapse-fire-monday/index.html

 

[bkp_duke]

None of the life cycle comparisons that I have seen between BEV and ICE take into account the transportation of petrol to their retail pumping stations for use. In Philadelphia, the collapsed section of I-95 due to tanker fire is just the latest example of what can go wrong transporting petrol. If only there was a better way. Oh, wait...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/12/us/philadelphia-i95-collapse-fire-monday/index.html

Exactly. And all those doing "lifecycle" costs on BEVs and trying to say that they cost more over their life conveniently leave out some or all of the costs of fuel extraction (oil drilling and transportation) for ICE cars, but make an effort to point those the costs for lithium, rare earth, nickel, etc. mining and transportation costs.

 

[aubreymcfato]

Does any of you follow the ships? Is it me or we aren't actually seeing an increase in deliveries in Europe. Did the wave just disappear?
It's too soon to say, but maybe we'll begin to have a very strong 2nd month of the Q instead of the 3rd (and the third is just German deliveries).

 

[JRP3]

None of the life cycle comparisons that I have seen between BEV and ICE take into account the transportation of petrol to their retail pumping stations for use

Are you sure they don't? Any "well to wheels" analysis should include transportation costs.

 

[jkirkwood001]

Haha - after 11 consecutive days up, the MaxPain chart for this week is all over the map (technically, it's $185. Really??). I know, it's early in the week still, but wouldn't it be great if, for once, market manipulators were disqualified from affecting TSLA??

Cue @Krugerrand with a sour "Fat chance of that".

 

[jerry33]

Did he actuslly say thet, or did you infer it from something else he said (e.g. like «level playing field» or something)?

It came out in a tweet that had some details of the agreement along with some Elon quotes.

 

[jerry33]

So do you think that is or isn’t true, or just the wrong policy? Sorry, your wording is a bit ambiguous…

My current understanding is that Tesla is not goto charge other companies either higher rates or a fee to use the network.

 

[Drumheller]

It came out in a tweet that had some details of the agreement along with some Elon quotes.

Can you share a link, please? I did not see that one.

 

[jerry33]

Can you share a link, please? I did not see that one.

If I can find it. It was from yesterday IIRC.

 

[EldestOyster]

Is there some reason these "manipulators" wouldn't ever try to push the price up? There's money to be made going in either direction (arguably more in the positive direction). They are always referred to as "manipulators", not "market killers".

 

[Hiline]

I think Tesla's strategy is threefold:

1. Speed up the consumer transition to EV by enabling other automakers to use their charging network, thereby defeating the number one competitor - consumer inertia. With the help from competitors, which comprise of both legacy automakers and other charging networks, Tesla will be able to change consumer habits more quickly.
2. Use their lead in manufacturing and technology to create a competitive advantage against other automakers that produce EV, to sell more cars. Since Tesla is years ahead, they'll be able to produce cars for lower costs and higher efficiency, and with the EV market and charging infrastructure expanding quickly, they'll have way more customers. Big fish in a big pond.
3. Use the cars as a platform to sell software - it is therefore critical that Tesla produce and sell as many cars and as quickly as possible. Parts 1 and 2 are prerequisite for this.

They won't be using the supercharging network as a competitive advantage or significant profit driver, because Tesla's real competition is against ICEs and gas stations, not other EVs, and there's so much more money in selling hardware and software. I don't expect Tesla to charge legacy automakers to use the Supercharger network, because they need them to help speed up the transition and complete the first part of the strategy.

 

[SarahsDad]

Um, perhaps but I don’t think so. Maybe one was. Maybe a second was *contemplating*. But, nah. *This* is all too quick and too ‘coincidental’ in timing.

Additionally, it’s all simply ‘announcements’. We’ll see what happens over the next 6-9 months, but I won’t be holding my breath.

If you’re correct and everyone has been working on this in the background ‘for the past year’, I’d expect to see the new NACS begin to show up at these company’s locales like now. Indeed, they should have been showing up already.

Or are you saying they’d all formed committees to discuss forming a committee to talk about a committee to transition to NACS?

Yeah looks like Blink just did a last minute (sloppy) photoshop from what they announced at CES in January. It was probably going to be 2 CCS plugs at first. "Just shrink the CCS image for the NACS, no one will notice".

https://twitter.com/x/status/1667977800698183681

 

[Knightshade]

Haha - after 11 consecutive days up, the MaxPain chart for this week is all over the map (technically, it's $185. Really??). I know, it's early in the week still, but wouldn't it be great if, for once, market manipulators were disqualified from affecting TSLA??

Cue @Krugerrand with a sour "Fat chance of that".

View attachment 946174

It's quad witching, max pain is always weird when you've got lots of long-term options expiring.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Are you sure they don't? Any "well to wheels" analysis should include transportation costs.

Example from 2009. PDF page 38 (document page 28) is the first point with a graph that shows separate WTP (Well to pump) and PTW (pump to wheel) energy:

https://publications.anl.gov/anlpubs/2009/03/63740.pdf

I think I've read elsewhere adding 30% for well-to-pump for gasoline.

 

[SarahsDad]

And now ChargePoint "blinks"...

ChargePoint Will Soon Offer NACS Connector Options for Its Charging Solutions | ChargePoint

www.chargepoint.com

 

[MP3Mike]

And now ChargePoint "blinks"...

ChargePoint Will Soon Offer NACS Connector Options for Its Charging Solutions | ChargePoint

www.chargepoint.com

I think almost all of the major charging equipment vendors have made announcements:

• ABB
• AmpUp
• Autel
• Blink
• ChargePoint
• EverCharge
• EVgo
• EVPassport
• FLO
• FreeWire
• i-charging
• Kempower
• Tritum
• Wallbox
• XCharge

Who I don't see having announced NACS support yet:

• SK Signet
• BTC
• Delta

SK Signet and BTC are currently the main suppliers for Electrify America.

 

[SO16]

I think almost all of the major charging equipment vendors have made announcements:

• ABB
• AmpUp
• Autel
• Blink
• ChargePoint
• EverCharge
• EVgo
• EVPassport
• FLO
• FreeWire
• i-charging
• Kempower
• Tritum
• Wallbox
• XCharge

Who I don't see having announce NACS support yet:

• SK Signet
• BTC
• Delta

SK Signet and BTC are currently the main suppliers for Electrify America.

It’s probably cheaper maintenance for them as well. CCS more likely to break.

 

[Sofie]

It's quad witching, max pain is always weird when you've got lots of long-term options expiring.

I wouldn’t mind buying more at $185!

 

[SarahsDad]

Hmmm and it looks like Tesla might get access to the NEVI tax credits after all, which currently require a CCS option. Does Jon McNeil (GM Board member and former Tesla executive) know something we don't?

“Tesla is going to be able to access tax credits by opening up this standard so they are going to get help funding the network further.”

 

[hobbes]

Giga Mexico might be quicker than expected according to governor, permit should be granted in 10-15 weeks, first cars likely next year:

Gouverneur: Elektroauto aus Tesla-Fabrik in Mexiko noch 2024, China-Zulieferer sollen mit

Die Tesla-Gigafactory in Mexiko soll laut dem Gouverneur noch 2024 produzieren – offenbar mit Hilfe chinesischer Zulieferer vor Ort.

teslamag-de.translate.goog

based on

Tesla iniciará la construcción de su fábrica en Nuevo León en 10 o 15 semanas, anuncia Samuel García

El gobernador aseguró que Elon Musk, dueño de Tesla, podría asistir al arranque de los trabajos de la gigafábrica

latinus-us.translate.goog