Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[MP3Mike]

Possible large attorneys fees bill (billions) landing on Tesla’s Accounts Payable desk if appeals fail:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1757797984186544302

I love how this reads. The compensation package for Elon was too expensive and hurts Tesla, and the shareholders, so let's get it cancelled, and as a reward for that I should get paid a large percentage, multiple billions, of the compensation package that was cancelled. So instead of Tesla only paying a small amount in taxes for Elon's compensation package Tesla would have to pay the attorney/plaintiff more than what the package would cost Tesla, actually hurting Tesla and the shareholders significantly.

Hopefully the appeal is successful.

 

[mongo]

I love how this reads. The compensation package for Elon was too expensive and hurts Tesla, and the shareholders, so let's get it cancelled, and as a reward for that I should get paid a large percentage, multiple billions, of the compensation package that was cancelled. So instead of Tesla only paying a small amount in taxes for Elon's compensation package Tesla would have to pay the attorney/plaintiff more than what the package would cost Tesla, actually hurting Tesla and the shareholders significantly.

Hopefully the appeal is successful.

What is value of something never given?
Black-Scholes (GAAP)? Exercise price? Lowest price since vesting?

 

[dl003]

I love how this reads. The compensation package for Elon was too expensive and hurts Tesla, and the shareholders, so let's get it cancelled, and as a reward for that I should get paid a large percentage, multiple billions, of the compensation package that was cancelled. So instead of Tesla only paying a small amount in taxes for Elon's compensation package Tesla would have to pay the attorney/plaintiff more than what the package would cost Tesla, actually hurting Tesla and the shareholders significantly.

Hopefully the appeal is successful.

The lawyer can receive his fees in TSLA stock options that vet only if he goes to work for Tesla and meets certain performance criteria. There.

 

[elasalle]

I love how this reads. The compensation package for Elon was too expensive and hurts Tesla, and the shareholders, so let's get it cancelled, and as a reward for that I should get paid a large percentage, multiple billions, of the compensation package that was cancelled. So instead of Tesla only paying a small amount in taxes for Elon's compensation package Tesla would have to pay the attorney/plaintiff more than what the package would cost Tesla, actually hurting Tesla and the shareholders significantly.

Hopefully the appeal is successful.

What happened to move to TX or (Nevada)? This move would not need any fees right?
Paying legal fees is just a waste, and results are still in doubt .... coin toss with 30-70 chances of winning ...

 

[Knightshade]

What happened to move to TX or (Nevada)? This move would not need any fees right?
Paying legal fees is just a waste, and results are still in doubt .... coin toss with 30-70 chances of winning ...

You can't flee from one state to another to try and avoid an existing court judgement like that.

Also there's a current case before the Delaware courts (involving Tripadvisor) that might actually prevent Tesla from moving incorporation elsewhere at all

 

[elasalle]

You can't flee from one state to another to try and avoid an existing court judgement like that.

Also there's a current case before the Delaware courts (involving Tripadvisor) that might actually prevent Tesla from moving incorporation elsewhere at all

If judgement is accepted, and then they work on new package once incorporated elsewhere?

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1757792365454979260

It will be nice to see this on Q1 earnings

 

[WattsHappening]

If judgement is accepted, and then they work on new package once incorporated elsewhere?

Theoretically, yes. However, one must segregate the 2018 compensation plan from a new going-forward plan.

Yes, they will work out a new plan, hopefully one with similar types of operational and market cap milestones.

But there is the issue of getting shareholder approval for past events/milestones. I don't recall where I heard it, but there is belief that institutional shareholders will NOT approve a similar compensation package for the 2018 compensation plan. While I would personally reward Elon for the past, I can also see why institutional investors would balk at doing so. Can the same 2018 plan get through without institutional shareholder support? Very doubtful IMO.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Headed for 190 Max Pain this week, no doubt (said like a Canadian).
Next week shows some Put activity at 170, we'll see. Unless something else happens.
Feels like we're waiting in limbo on about 8 different things...

 

[mongo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1757792365454979260

It will be nice to see this on Q1 earnings

You won't.
The monies flow around the income statements of both the seller and buyer.

Q19: How are transferred tax credits treated for tax purposes? (added Oct. 6, 2023)
A19. For dealers: Advance payments received by the registered dealer are not treated as a tax credit to the dealer and may exceed the dealer’s regular tax liability. Advance payments received by the registered dealer are not included in the gross income of the dealer. The payment made by the registered dealer to the buyer in exchange for the transferred credit is not deductible by the dealer. Such payment is treated as repaid by the buyer to the registered dealer as part of the purchase price of the vehicle and therefore is treated as included in the total amount received from the sale transaction.

For buyers: The payment made by the registered dealer to the buyer in the form of a cash payment, down payment or partial down payment is not includible in the gross income of the buyer. Such payment made by the registered dealer is treated as an advance payment of the credit to the buyer on behalf of the Secretary of the Treasury and the basis of such vehicle is reduced by the amount of such credit

 

[alhounos]

George Hotz Offers a Different Perspective on FSD and Autonomous Vehicle Progress

George Hotz's realistic take on AVs: full autonomy is over a decade away, with gradual advances leading the way

www.notateslaapp.com

Interesting commentary from George Hotz. Aligns with what Karpathy said in that true L5 FSD will require essentially AGI. So expectations that it is right around the corner are likely to be disappointed.

The question as investors is how much value can Tesla realize from a really good L3 system in the near future, instead of true driverless FSD/robotaxi 10+ years from now.

 

[jerry33]

64%? Who answered this survey!? Sixty-nine people from the bayou or Ozarks without Starlink?

Most likely the same segment of folks who answer the political poles. Older, still have a land line, etc.

 

[Drumheller]

Is anyone aware of a lawsuit being formed against the judge that undid Elon's comp plan? If not, are there lawyers or people here that know lawyers that may be interested in discussing? I'm willing to contribute to legal fees.

 

[ggr]

Mod: moved 33 posts about Cybertruk orders and rust to

ALL CyberTruck discussion

*reservations

teslamotorsclub.com

for lack of a better place. Be happy that I didn't just delete them.
But this and off-topic in the Ukraine thread have left me in a bad mood. Don't push it.
--ggr

 

[Snerruc]

Getting back on topic, the market seems to find $180-$200 a reasonable range for TSLA. I’m inclined to agree for what a dufus’s opinion is worth. Considering the numbers for car companies, I think the market is already factoring in much of the potential for TSLA. Feel free to disagree.

 

[Knightshade]

Is anyone aware of a lawsuit being formed against the judge that undid Elon's comp plan? If not, are there lawyers or people here that know lawyers that may be interested in discussing? I'm willing to contribute to legal fees.

Generally judges have absolute immunity from lawsuits over the normal performance of their job.

 

[Usain]

George Hotz Offers a Different Perspective on FSD and Autonomous Vehicle Progress

George Hotz's realistic take on AVs: full autonomy is over a decade away, with gradual advances leading the way

www.notateslaapp.com

Interesting commentary from George Hotz. Aligns with what Karpathy said in that true L5 FSD will require essentially AGI. So expectations that it is right around the corner are likely to be disappointed.

The question as investors is how much value can Tesla realize from a really good L3 system in the near future, instead of true driverless FSD/robotaxi 10+ years from now.

Tesla can still do robotaxi without L5. L4 would be fine. It would just need to be geofenced and remotely monitored like Waymo.

The difference is, Tesla would be able to do it profitably. VERY PROFITABLY.

 

[Buckminster]

I recommend watching at least from 15 to 20 mins

 

[alhounos]

Tesla can still do robotaxi without L5. L4 would be fine. It would just need to be geofenced and remotely monitored like Waymo.

The difference is, Tesla would be able to do it profitably. VERY PROFITABLY.

True, and personally I would be willing to pay quite a bit for a L3 (no supervision) FSD that worked in 95% of situations. I imagine many many others would too.

 

[advocate8]

Tesla can still do robotaxi without L5. L4 would be fine. It would just need to be geofenced and remotely monitored like Waymo.

The difference is, Tesla would be able to do it profitably. VERY PROFITABLY.

But it’s going to take something other than cameras helping with the sensing, first. Says my MY after having two cameras simultaneously unavailable twice now during recent rainstorms.