Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[GatorMeat]

Which China EV company gonna invest in GM and F?

 

[GatorMeat]

Tesla Cybertruck recalled again, this time over faulty wiper and trim

Cyber dumptruck.

www.theverge.com

Tesla recalls all 3,878 Cybertrucks over faulty accelerator pedal

The “Cyberstuck” defect will be fixed at no additional cost to customers.

www.theverge.com

11,688 less the 3,878 vehicles recalled on April 17th means Tesla has produced 7,810 Cybertrucks since April 19th (when CT production resumed), a span of nearly 9.5 weeks. It imputes a 820/week run rate, if, of course, production was level (it almost certainly was not).

Tesla produces 1,300 Cybertrucks per week, moving from Foundations Series next quarter

Tesla confirmed that it managed to produce 1,300 Cybertrucks in a week and it is moving from its Foundations Series...

electrek.co

So the first or second week of April, they supposedly were producing 1,000/week. Since then, they've averaged ~820/week, while also claiming to hit 1,300/week in the second week of June.

Either they were *very slow* to restart production after the mid-April recall, or the math is off. Just another example of how you can't extrapolate a one-time rate of production that Tesla chooses to share.

The change was made beginning with May 26th production, so double your run rate to 1,640/wk

 

[Stretch2727]

I’d expect the after hours reaction on Rivian to fade tomorrow, who knows what the stock market will do of course but

The stock being up $5b in market cap on a $5b investment w/ dilution and joint venture, I don’t know if that makes much sense

Yeah, it's $1B, likely dilutive, they need a lot more than this. It's like Rivian got a contract to write software for VW. Could be a major distraction. Probably end up swallowed by a VW at some point.

Volkswagen Group is investing $1 billion in electric-pickup maker Rivian Automotive, with plans to spend up to $5 billion as part of a software-development partnership.

The deal, disclosed Tuesday, should provide a lift for the balance sheet of the loss-making startup and help lower the cost of Rivian's next generation of vehicles. For VW, the deal is aimed at bolstering its software unit, which has struggled with quality issues.

VW said it would invest $2 billion in the creation of a jointly-owned software company that uses Rivian's vehicle technology as the foundation for programs that will go into both automakers' future vehicles in the latter half of the decade.

The German automaker said it also planned to purchase a $3 billion stake in Rivian over a few years, including the initial $1 billion injection.

The cash provides Rivian a financial cushion as it works toward the launch of new vehicles, which the company has said will be more affordable than its current offerings that start at $70,000.

Rivian's shares rose about 30% in aftermarket trading.

Rivian Chief Executive RJ Scaringe said in an interview that the company now had enough money to fund operations long enough to become a cash-generating business.

"The capital is only one portion of the value for us," Scaringe said. Spreading the cost of Rivian's software over a larger fleet of vehicles through the VW tie-up would lower parts costs for Rivian as well, he said.

The Irvine, Calif.-based company reported a net loss of $5.4 billion last year.

Before the VW investment, Rivian had sought to conserve cash in part by postponing plans for a new factory in Georgia, which the company said would allow it to save around $2 billion on the launch of its next vehicle, the R2 SUV.

Under the deal, VW is adding a new partner in its efforts to overhaul its troubled software unit, Cariad, after quality issues held up the launch of several models. In October, Volkswagen hired a veteran of Tesla and Rivian to head up the software unit with a mandate to speed up development.

The VW investment comes as young EV companies such as Rivian -- one-time Wall Street darlings during a euphoric period for electric cars -- face plateauing sales and questions about demand for their vehicles. Another startup, Fisker, filed for bankruptcy protection last week after running out of cash.

Rivian is one of the most prominent among a group of electric upstarts that went public in recent years, as investors piled into companies promising to repeat Tesla's success.

Rivian's R1T pickup, R1S SUV and battery-powered delivery van were a success with customers and critics, but the company struggled to turn a profit on them. The company reported a gross loss of $39,000 on every vehicle it sold in the first three months of the year.

Rivian has burned through billions of dollars, and its cash-on-hand fell to roughly $6 billion at the end of March, down from $8 billion at the end of December.

In an effort to reduce costs, Rivian recently overhauled its sole factory, in Normal, Ill., and redesigned its vehicles to make them cheaper to build. Executives have said the changes will enable the company to report its first gross profit by the end of the year.

The joint venture with VW will incorporate some of the design improvements made by Rivian, including a reduction in the number of computer chips and cables that power the vehicles, Scaringe said.

Rivian is scheduled to host investors at its factory on Thursday.

(END) Dow Jones Newswires
06-25-24 1705ET
Copyright (c) 2024 Dow Jones & Company, Inc

 

[AndrewZ]

Rivian market cap barely exceeded their cash balance due to significant survival risk, now alleviated.

At least $1b of the $5b sounds like straight up share dilution through a convertible note right? Don’t know about the other $4b.

According to Gary there was never any risk of them going under.


Doesn’t make sense to me

 

[sunwarriors]

Yeah, it's $1B, likely dilutive, they need a lot more than this. It's like Rivian got a contract to write software for VW. Could be a major distraction. Probably end up swallowed by a VW at some point.

Volkswagen Group is investing $1 billion in electric-pickup maker Rivian Automotive, with plans to spend up to $5 billion as part of a software-development partnership.

The deal, disclosed Tuesday, should provide a lift for the balance sheet of the loss-making startup and help lower the cost of Rivian's next generation of vehicles. For VW, the deal is aimed at bolstering its software unit, which has struggled with quality issues.

VW said it would invest $2 billion in the creation of a jointly-owned software company that uses Rivian's vehicle technology as the foundation for programs that will go into both automakers' future vehicles in the latter half of the decade.

The German automaker said it also planned to purchase a $3 billion stake in Rivian over a few years, including the initial $1 billion injection.

The cash provides Rivian a financial cushion as it works toward the launch of new vehicles, which the company has said will be more affordable than its current offerings that start at $70,000.

Rivian's shares rose about 30% in aftermarket trading.

Rivian Chief Executive RJ Scaringe said in an interview that the company now had enough money to fund operations long enough to become a cash-generating business.

"The capital is only one portion of the value for us," Scaringe said. Spreading the cost of Rivian's software over a larger fleet of vehicles through the VW tie-up would lower parts costs for Rivian as well, he said.

The Irvine, Calif.-based company reported a net loss of $5.4 billion last year.

Before the VW investment, Rivian had sought to conserve cash in part by postponing plans for a new factory in Georgia, which the company said would allow it to save around $2 billion on the launch of its next vehicle, the R2 SUV.

Under the deal, VW is adding a new partner in its efforts to overhaul its troubled software unit, Cariad, after quality issues held up the launch of several models. In October, Volkswagen hired a veteran of Tesla and Rivian to head up the software unit with a mandate to speed up development.

The VW investment comes as young EV companies such as Rivian -- one-time Wall Street darlings during a euphoric period for electric cars -- face plateauing sales and questions about demand for their vehicles. Another startup, Fisker, filed for bankruptcy protection last week after running out of cash.

Rivian is one of the most prominent among a group of electric upstarts that went public in recent years, as investors piled into companies promising to repeat Tesla's success.

Rivian's R1T pickup, R1S SUV and battery-powered delivery van were a success with customers and critics, but the company struggled to turn a profit on them. The company reported a gross loss of $39,000 on every vehicle it sold in the first three months of the year.

Rivian has burned through billions of dollars, and its cash-on-hand fell to roughly $6 billion at the end of March, down from $8 billion at the end of December.

In an effort to reduce costs, Rivian recently overhauled its sole factory, in Normal, Ill., and redesigned its vehicles to make them cheaper to build. Executives have said the changes will enable the company to report its first gross profit by the end of the year.

The joint venture with VW will incorporate some of the design improvements made by Rivian, including a reduction in the number of computer chips and cables that power the vehicles, Scaringe said.

Rivian is scheduled to host investors at its factory on Thursday.

(END) Dow Jones Newswires
06-25-24 1705ET
Copyright (c) 2024 Dow Jones & Company, Inc

That's the negative spin/take on it if folks here want to choose to look that way. Elon's comp package was dilutive too to the tune of 10%, and TSLA isn't in any risk of going under.

Overall, survival is critical for Rivian right now and I doubt they want to be swallowed up by VW which helps no one (that's why VW SW has been crap).

Note the 2 billion is for a joint venture so it's not a direct check to them, but you assume Rivian will get financially compensated to probably deploy their SW in the future to the millions of VW vehicles if the choose to go with Rivian's tech/stack (which it sounds like is the whole point of this).


Rivian, makes half decent products from most reviews, but was burning through cash and was a going concern without a financial injection of some sort. We've all discussed that here for a while. They needed a partner to remove that risk. Lucid is similar, but is already 51%+ (I think) owned by the Saudi's who have billions/trillions more and would probably want to diversify from oil anyways.

I think it's a positive for the industry since having competition will only make the Tesla/Cybertruck better. If not, you'll just get whatever is slapped together, little choice and there is little incentive as well to improve (with high prices).

Some articles state this won't help them out that much cash flow wise, but maybe they just needed enough to get R2 out and lowered cost for R1.

 

[cliff harris]

comment on the no stalks been driving CT for over a month now

there is absolutely no need for stalks especially turn signals ... no need to even move hand... been driving over 40 years and i don't miss the stalks at all

and i will repeat SBW is game changer ... i find myself unable to drive my MS ...SBW is so tight and more fun to drive

Every time someone mentions this, EVERY time, they are in the US or Canada.
If I drive to the nearest city, I have at least 20 roundabouts, maybe 30 between here and there. A lot of Europe is the same. I know a lot of people, myself included who would simply never buy a car without stalks.
Why Tesla cannot grasp this is beyond me. Stalks are not made from platinum...

 

[SO16]

Every time someone mentions this, EVERY time, they are in the US or Canada.
If I drive to the nearest city, I have at least 20 roundabouts, maybe 30 between here and there. A lot of Europe is the same. I know a lot of people, myself included who would simply never buy a car without stalks.
Why Tesla cannot grasp this is beyond me. Stalks are not made from platinum...

For people that want stalks, at least there are 3rd party options.

Yes, Tesla should have stalks option. I’m sure the 3rd party vendors don’t mind.

 

[jerry33]

Every time someone mentions this, EVERY time, they are in the US or Canada.
If I drive to the nearest city, I have at least 20 roundabouts, maybe 30 between here and there. A lot of Europe is the same. I know a lot of people, myself included who would simply never buy a car without stalks.
Why Tesla cannot grasp this is beyond me. Stalks are not made from platinum...

In North America, I've yet to see a person signal in a roundabout. FSD should do the signaling (and I expect it will in Europe) but I haven't seen it signaling yet. Does signaling in a roundabout accomplish anything other than distract the driver?

 

[MC3OZ]

Yeah, it's $1B, likely dilutive, they need a lot more than this. It's like Rivian got a contract to write software for VW. Could be a major distraction. Probably end up swallowed by a VW at some point. Volkswagen Group is investing $1 billion in electric-pickup maker Rivian Automotive, with plans to spend up to $5 billion as part of a software-development partnership. The deal, disclosed Tuesday, should provide a lift for the balance sheet of the loss-making startup and help lower the cost of Rivian's next generation of vehicles. For VW, the deal is aimed at bolstering its software unit, which has struggled with quality issues. VW said it would invest $2 billion in the creation of a jointly-owned software company that uses Rivian's vehicle technology as the foundation for programs that will go into both automakers' future vehicles in the latter half of the decade. The German automaker said it also planned to purchase a $3 billion stake in Rivian over a few years, including the initial $1 billion injection. The cash provides Rivian a financial cushion as it works toward the launch of new vehicles, which the company has said will be more affordable than its current offerings that start at $70,000. Rivian's shares rose about 30% in aftermarket trading. Rivian Chief Executive RJ Scaringe said in an interview that the company now had enough money to fund operations long enough to become a cash-generating business. "The capital is only one portion of the value for us," Scaringe said. Spreading the cost of Rivian's software over a larger fleet of vehicles through the VW tie-up would lower parts costs for Rivian as well, he said. The Irvine, Calif.-based company reported a net loss of $5.4 billion last year. Before the VW investment, Rivian had sought to conserve cash in part by postponing plans for a new factory in Georgia, which the company said would allow it to save around $2 billion on the launch of its next vehicle, the R2 SUV. Under the deal, VW is adding a new partner in its efforts to overhaul its troubled software unit, Cariad, after quality issues held up the launch of several models. In October, Volkswagen hired a veteran of Tesla and Rivian to head up the software unit with a mandate to speed up development. The VW investment comes as young EV companies such as Rivian -- one-time Wall Street darlings during a euphoric period for electric cars -- face plateauing sales and questions about demand for their vehicles. Another startup, Fisker, filed for bankruptcy protection last week after running out of cash. Rivian is one of the most prominent among a group of electric upstarts that went public in recent years, as investors piled into companies promising to repeat Tesla's success. Rivian's R1T pickup, R1S SUV and battery-powered delivery van were a success with customers and critics, but the company struggled to turn a profit on them. The company reported a gross loss of $39,000 on every vehicle it sold in the first three months of the year. Rivian has burned through billions of dollars, and its cash-on-hand fell to roughly $6 billion at the end of March, down from $8 billion at the end of December. In an effort to reduce costs, Rivian recently overhauled its sole factory, in Normal, Ill., and redesigned its vehicles to make them cheaper to build. Executives have said the changes will enable the company to report its first gross profit by the end of the year. The joint venture with VW will incorporate some of the design improvements made by Rivian, including a reduction in the number of computer chips and cables that power the vehicles, Scaringe said. Rivian is scheduled to host investors at its factory on Thursday. (END) Dow Jones Newswires 06-25-24 1705ET Copyright (c) 2024 Dow Jones & Company, Inc

Software is a major issue for VW, something they need to sort out ASAP.

Software from Rivian might be a good solution.

 

[DarkandStormy]

The change was made beginning with May 26th production, so double your run rate to 1,640/wk

What change?

 

[M|S|M MYP]

Software is a major issue for VW, something they need to sort out ASAP.

Software from Rivian might be a good solution.

VW should have just bought it from that COLOR Hills software company and called it a day

 

[Tachyon]

In North America, I've yet to see a person signal in a roundabout. FSD should do the signaling (and I expect it will in Europe) but I haven't seen it signaling yet. Does signaling in a roundabout accomplish anything other than distract the driver?

I do it all the time and is the right thing to do . I did pick up the habit from driving in UK for about 3 yrs.
Signaling in the round about does help the drivers behind you and also the drivers waiting to get onto the round about your intention and not second guess your actions.

 

[CaliBear1]

Where? I miss her too. I miss dozens of the people we lost in the last years.

She moved to Galt's Gulch.

 

[powertoold]

I do it all the time and is the right thing to do . I did pick up the habit from driving in UK for about 3 yrs.
Signaling in the round about does help the drivers behind you and also the drivers waiting to get onto the round about your intention and not second guess your actions.

I personally don't make decisions based on people's (often erroneous or misinterpreted) signaling, but then again I drive in the USA.

 

[adiggs]

Note the 2 billion is for a joint venture so it's not a direct check to them, but you assume Rivian will get financially compensated to probably deploy their SW in the future to the millions of VW vehicles if the choose to go with Rivian's tech/stack (which it sounds like is the whole point of this).

No particular insight here - the way this is reading is that VW is bringing $2B to the table, and Rivian is bringing their software development team and the software they've already written; and will write in the future.

Pretty good team they've got assembled if an outside party will pay $2B for access. I wonder if those developers will be getting a bonus!

 

[MC3OZ]

I miss the cat. Is he on a temporary or permanent vacation?

Mod altered: No one has been banned. Stop the recent gossip, everyone.

 

[Joe F]

The “cat” left probably because many keep trying to change her gender…

 

[y_naught]

I personally don't make decisions based on people's (often erroneous or misinterpreted) signaling, but then again I drive in the USA.

It’s a funny behavior, but I’ve noticed my MYLR on FSD will slow down *next* to a car with its signal on, pretty much matching its speed, which strikes me as odd. It should slow down to let the driver in or speed up to pass the driver who may change lanes. I often end up stepping on the gas to move ahead. Not sure what the car is thinking here.

 

[Tony73]

Compared with burning coal perhaps those hydroelectric solutions are less bad. Their classification as 'renewable' only works if unintended consequences are ignored.

Negative ecological effects regrettable as they may be do not change the fact that hydroelectric power is renewable. It just means the power source is self renewing on a daily or seasonal basis.

 

[WarpedOne]

Positove voices get shut down.
....negative are.just freedom of.speech. the world in 2024.

Content matters not.