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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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To expand on what others have said re: lithium stocks... a lot of it is supply. The plans to open up Bolivian lithium supply would have depressed stocks in existing lithium miners in places like Chile, and LIT has a whole bunch of those and AFAIK no or minimal exposure to Bolivian supply.
Given Bolivian political upheavals plus the location of lithium supplies in the country, in one of the most fractured and impoverished areas in that benighted place, we probably should not imagine rapid development there. OTOH, there are decent supplies of Lithium in a variety of stable areas. That allows producers to trade political stability and ease of access against ease of processing to yield desired products. We should be equally or more concerned with nickel and various REE that may be greater potential constraints than will be lithium.

We all know predicting commodity price and supply are fraught. With each such metal the greatest issue is rate of acceleration in demand. Bluntly we know that Tesla and CATL are probably ahead of the rest of the world in evaluating future demands. We also know the battery chemistries/technologies are now rapidly changing after a couple decades of relative stagnation. Motors, BMS/controllers are materially altering the composition and costs of BEV-specific materials.

That makes me think that many people overstate the importance of lithium supply increases. In addition extraction technology is also rapidly evolving.

IMHO, the net of all that is that manufacturing process and distribution issues are vastly more material to our concerns than is any raw material supply. They're important, but being dealt with without presenting significant constraints to TSLA investors.
 
Pure gold - $TSLAQ adding Lin Wood to their block list (where's the ROFLOLSMS) icon when you need it?

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They are making progress, but very slowly.
Could somebody write a script for them to add the whole twitter user base except the TSLAQ list at once?
That would be more efficient method to reach the same end result ;)
 
I posted this in the Unsworth thread but thought important enough to add here too.
With Lin Wood finally throwing in the towel, I hope the FUD noise around this trial finally subsides.



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Uh...I don’t trust that guy. An about face like that is very suspect in my life experience with people.

Motives for behaving badly and now not — my keen sense smells fish, though I prefer catnip.
 
According to the post you are quoting, "Woods says that Ark believes that in 2024 (i.e. for their 5-year forecast) total EV sales will be 37M units."

5 years is 60 months from now, the end of 2024, not the beginning. I see lots of posters using your 48-month number incorrectly.

But wait a second. It’s been a 5 year timeline for how long? How long has she been saying that? Hasn’t it been a year by now?

It’s the same thing here. People put out timelines but it’s always; long term, 5 years, 10 years but they’ve been saying it for 6 months or 2 years. When does 5 years become 4, become 3?
 
Somebody SO needs to write a book about this, and then turn it into a movie later.

Starring Leonardo DiCaprio as lead investigator, and Joaquin Phoenix as the mastermind behind TSLAQ.

There’s going to movies some day. Count on it. Hollywood loves to create movies based on a true story.

Elon Musk version of Rocketman
Tesla vs Porsche vs Ford vs fill in the blank
How the electric car finally survived
 
This question of 37M cars in 2024 has been a question in my mind for quite a while. Is it possible Kathie is talking about EVs, not BEVs? If so, that is doable IMO. (i.e., including PHEVs). The only way 37M BEVs is going to happen is 1) a massive increase in battery pack supply and 2) the licensing of Tesla's operating and battery management systems to others.
I suspect that Kathie is including PHEVs, as this is the way most EV report track them. However, I don't think that PHEVs will have much market share left by 2025. This pretty much comes down to pack cost for BEVs. As pack costs drop below $100/kWh, the ICE as a range extender becomes a more expensive way to add range than simply packing more cells. I think the average pack price will hit this threshold in 2021 or 2022.

Now if there are limitation with scaling up the battery supply chain, then the average price won't need to go that low. Some battery makers will be able to sell at a premium while EV makers that have locked in lower pack cost will enjoy bigger profit margin and grab market share from the rest. So even in this sort of supply constrained scenario, Tesla is better positioned than most EV makers.

So the scenario that gives Tesla more grief is where the average pack cost drops below ICE parity and the supply available to competitors is plentiful. In that sort of scenario, PHEVs drop out of the market pretty fast as do ICE vehicles. Hence, 37M EV spring into being and Tesla's dominance is at greatest risk.

So I think as an investor you can focus on those scenarios which are most challenging for Tesla. If your investment thesis hold, gret keep investing. If actualities go into scenarios that may be fewer than 37M EV, but more advantageous for Tesla, then you just change your outlook in time but maintain your investment. No one will care if Kathie was off about 37M EVs if it proves that Tesla is even more valuable than what was expected in a 37M EV scenario.

So I suspect what she is setting up is a "Tesla killer" scenario. If Tesla detractors want to push a narrative that the rest of the OEMs will catch up with Tesla and outmaneuver for market share, then it is their burden to defend the idea if EV sales hitting 37M or more in 2024. Sadly, Tesla critics have gotten away with articulating mutually exclusive outlooks simultaneously. Specifically, they want to hold a contradiction: 1) legacy OEMs will out compete Tesla soon, and 2) EV uptake will be a slow process. You really can't have it both ways so long as Tesla keeps to its relentless production ramp.

You could articulate the contradiction this way. First argue that Tesla will ramp production to 3.7M in 2024. Now if the industry is going to limit Tesla's market share to no more than 10% of the market, then total EV sales must exceed 37M in 2024. Otherwise, Tesla could be on a path to take significantly more share than Toyota or VW. So Tesla critics have to choose between two alternative Tesla is on a path to become the largest automaker or EV sales hit more than 37M in 2024. Either scenario is pretty threatening to the valuation of most OEMs.

My own outlook, as I've articulated in the EV market share thread for quite a while is that Tesla has the potential to walk away with more than 20% of the motor vehicle market. The path is that they first secure a 20% share of the EV market. Then they hold onto that share as the EV market pushes non-BEVs out of the wider market. At the end of the transition there are only EVs and Tesla is left hold a 20% share of the entire automotive market. What makes the longterm outlook most secure in 2024 is if while Tesla builds 3.7M units the total EV market is less than 18.5M, in which case Tesla has a 20% share of the EV market in 2024. But, hey, if the Big Boys want to get tough with Tesla, let them build 37M EVs in 2024.
 
Pure gold - $TSLAQ adding Lin Wood to their block list (where's the ROFLOLSMS) icon when you need it?

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Yes, this had me absolutely rolling. Lin Wood is a scumbag who is trying to make lemonaide -- that doesn't make him any less of a scumbag, but it does demonstrate that he can -- eventually -- see the hole he has dug for himself. Sure, he doesn't admit fault much less recognize his under-the-table efforts but I'll give him credit that he isn't a complete moron.

#TSLAQ on the other hand? Those guys are hilarious. Its like Dumb and Dumber, but actually funny. I mean the only possible explanation for Lin Wood's turn around is that Elon got dirt on him. And, not only that, this is normal. Apparently, Elon's worldwide villain network gets dirt on lots of people so that they sing his praises. Cathy Woods, Sandy Munro, the list goes on. I mean, its plain to see that the SEC deliberately sabotaged their prosecution of Tesla by repeating spurious #TSLAQ accusations, embarrassing themselves as a result, only because Elon in his secret villain lair on the dark side of the moon release his army of lackeys to bribe, blackmail and threaten them into doing so. Elon orchestrated the entire SEC prosecution.

edit: if we apply Hanlon's razor we find that #TSLAQ has managed to corner the entire world of stupid. If only they had mental competence to apply Occam's razor they might realize that there are a far more plausible explanations for Sandy Munro's and Lin Wood's turn arounds.
 
There’s going to movies some day. Count on it. Hollywood loves to create movies based on a true story.

Elon Musk version of Rocketman
Tesla vs Porsche vs Ford vs fill in the blank
How the electric car finally survived
Hopefully Disney’s Rocketman
upload_2019-12-10_8-40-42.gif

*Musk getting funding for Mars