The Tesla loan process is already pretty painless. If you prefer to use shares as collateral and pay cash for the car, just use a brokerage with low interest margin like IBKR.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Phobi
Member
Dodge Says Charger, Challenger Will Be Gone By 2024, EV Arrives Soon
There are big changes afoot at Dodge, which faces a busy next two years phasing in a new EV, a plug-in hybrid, and an all-new model.
Well, I’d say this would probably be the nail in the coffin for the plant I’m currently in. The current contract ends in 2023, and I don’t see a reason why they would extend it any further than that. As hard as I’m sure it will be hard for the folks working here, but I’d be shocked if they didn’t think this would happen eventually. Here’s hoping my car isn’t vandalized by co-workers cause of the companies failure as a whole to act sooner with this transition…I’m not surprised.
I’m still catching up (@work ironically
) but just wanted to reinforce my conviction with what’s happened this past week with TSLA. I blame myself if that didn’t come off sarcastic, cause i was only hoping to acquire more shares on the dips this past week. I honestly owe Tesla/Elon/TMC my family’s well-being going forward, with announcements like the above being made, my dad and older brother’s pensions are now in question in the future. So it’s up to me to make things right. 
I continue to appreciate all here for your guidance going forward, and ready to continue the journey with you all as HODLers.
To the mission going forward.
P.S. Saw another Model 3 in the work parking lot finally…a small glimmer of hope I guess.
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Tes La Ferrari
Active Member
If I was the CEO of Dodge, a vehicle with the name “charger” would probably have been the first one I would have turned into a BEV.Dodge Says Charger, Challenger Will Be Gone By 2024, EV Arrives Soon
There are big changes afoot at Dodge, which faces a busy next two years phasing in a new EV, a plug-in hybrid, and an all-new model.www.motortrend.com
Well, I’d say this would probably be the nail in the coffin for the plant I’m currently in. The current contract ends in 2023, and I don’t see a reason why they would extend it any further than that. As hard as I’m sure it will be for the folks working here, but I’d be shocked if they didn’t think this would happen eventually. Here’s hoping my car isn’t vandalized by co-workers cause of the companies failure as a whole to act sooner with this transition…I’m not surprised.
I’m still catching up (@work ironically
I continue to appreciate all here for your guidance going forward, and ready to continue the journey with you all as HODLers.
To the mission going forward.
P.S. Saw another Model 3 in the work parking lot finally…a small glimmer of hope I guess.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
If you are retired, all your investments are retirement/investment funds.
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
Pezpunk
Active Member
At this moment, in a broader international perspective, there are things happening that may have a negative impact on the stock market as a whole.
On Nov 20, the head of Ukraine’s defense intelligence agency, Brigadier General Kyrylo Budanov, told Military Times that he expects Russia to attack his country in late January or early February. Russia has placed more than 92,000 troops at its border with Ukraine.
In a visit to Washington, D.C., where he met with U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, Ukraine’s defense minister, Oleksiy Reznikov, took a broader view of the mounting tensions in central and eastern Europe. Russian president Vladimir Putin “is testing the unity of the European Union, he is testing the unity of NATO allies, he is testing our society, Ukrainians, he is testing Poland, the Baltic countries,” Reznikov said.
Let's really hope it will not come as far as a Russian invasion of the Ukraine with all its terrible consequences.
On Nov 20, the head of Ukraine’s defense intelligence agency, Brigadier General Kyrylo Budanov, told Military Times that he expects Russia to attack his country in late January or early February. Russia has placed more than 92,000 troops at its border with Ukraine.
In a visit to Washington, D.C., where he met with U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, Ukraine’s defense minister, Oleksiy Reznikov, took a broader view of the mounting tensions in central and eastern Europe. Russian president Vladimir Putin “is testing the unity of the European Union, he is testing the unity of NATO allies, he is testing our society, Ukrainians, he is testing Poland, the Baltic countries,” Reznikov said.
Let's really hope it will not come as far as a Russian invasion of the Ukraine with all its terrible consequences.
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
I don't think a lender COULD accept IRA assets for collateral in the US.
For these sorts of securitisation programs the rate charged to the customer is basically the rate at which Tesla Finance believe they can sell the bonds for plus a margin for risk/profit.
You would need to be able to convince enough debt funds that the extra collateral reduces risk enough that they are willing to tighten the price. I doubt many debt funds would have the skillset to get this benefit approved by their investment committees.
Additionally, I doubt Moodys would give it much value initially in terms of better structuring outcomes (I.e. more bonds being rated AAA than without the stock collateral) as they wouldn't have any experience in modelling the additional collateral and it would likely get heavily haircut in a stressed scenario. I doubt it's a part of their ratings methodology, which means it doesn't exist in their modeling world.
Ultimately Moodys make their ratings decision at an investment committee which is just a few people that start with modelling outcomes and then apply random adjustments based on which way the wind is blowing that day. So there could be some benefit if the right people were on the investment committee but I'd say it would be a longshot. As an example of how oddly Moodys investment committees can be, they currently heavily discount the residual values (even compared to legacy OEMs) for Tesla vehicles even though used Tesla prices are currently selling for more than the original purchase price in many instances at the moment. This is because their investment committee believe there is uncertainty around technology/battery longevity and with less residual value history compared to ICE vehicles have made a manual adjustment to the analysis.
As a final thought, the loan servicer would need to have the operational capacity to manage stock collateral and I doubt many would have that skillset.
So long answer short, there could be some benefit but I think it's pretty unlikely. it would aldo likely take a huge amount of time and effort to convince the market of the benefit and to implement that benefit operationally.
CLK350
Member
On the Tesla loan alternative: yes, it could be offered as a variation of the Tesla loan - with better rates, tho, as you offer strong collateral
On using IBKR or (..) 's low interest margin for a loan: that could be a *very* bad move, all you need is one sharp dip for one hour, day (or 3 month etc) dip and poof your chairs are gone, at a loss too, if you don't have a large enough investment. This would never happen under the chair backed loan no matter how low TSLA gets
CLK350
Member
Hmm .. the whole point of the share backed loan idea is that Tesla itself would provide the loan, not the banking system via a Moody's rated securitization.
I brought this up because Tesla has more cash than it can use for any project, except purchasing BTC, which is on hold for now as we know. As Elon said, their bottleneck is finding
I don't know how Tesla invest /manage their cash, so that could be an issue, certainly. Note, their cash pile is expected to grow continuously as their efficiency scales, as has been noted by many here and other Tesla watchers - paging @The Accountant and @DaveT for their opinion
Correct. Tesla has no plan B that involves making hybrids and they need the lions share of batteries and will have them. The jackals will fight over the scraps and maximize their survival by making hybrids until the supply of batteries rises to meet requirements.
I am reminded of a Churchill quote about Americans exhausting all the wrong solutions before choosing the correct solution.
I think this is great but there is a far bigger approach that involves a split and digital service currency that might be even more interesting.
If they keep up the current release cadence then there will be 8/9 new drops between now and the end of Q1. Starting to feel that it is possible there will be FSD delivery to all US customers Q1 (and associated revenue recognition) - and highly likely in H1 22.
Together with the Berlin and Austin ramps (and from a local perspective the start of Model Y deliveries in UK) we look as if we are in for an exciting 6 months
P.S. Hope Model Y deliveries follow soon for the other RHD countries - it has been a looooooong wait.
The Accountant
Active Member
Barring any additional Bitcoin purchases, I project Tesla's cash to be:
2021 - $18b
2022 - $26b
2023 - $39b
2024 - $60b
2025 - $94b
2026 - $120b
As a reference, Microsoft has $130b in cash . . .a pretty nice pile considering they pay dividends each quarter ($16.5b in the recent fiscal year).
ruralectric
Member
Retirement Plans FAQs regarding Loans | Internal Revenue Service
Frequently Asked questions regarding Loans.
"If the owner of an IRA borrows from the IRA, the IRA is no longer an IRA, and the value of the entire IRA is included in the owner’s income. (IRC Sections 408(e)(2) and (3))
If the owner of an IRA pledges part of the IRA as collateral, the part of the IRA that is pledged is treated as distributed. (IRC Section 408(e)(4))"
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