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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I see the classic thermos full of tannerite pattern forming. Just need a little impact to blow the lid off.
Hmmm, that's an interesting one.
However, what I see is more like a Gandalf pattern on today's graph:
1659632315636.png


When you see Gandalf, you know magic is about to happen! ;)
 
Possible, but it isn't like the naked shorting has gone away at all since SP500 inclusion. The amount of the float being naked shorted might be lower, but I'd argue the impact the naked shorting has is higher. I don't see why this pattern of pre/post SP500 inclusion would change.

was just browsing the news and saw this

At the end of June update, more than 24 million shares were short, which is more than 40% of the current float. According to Finviz data, Beyond Meat currently has the highest percentage of float shorted in the US in terms of stocks with a market capitalization over $1 billion.

So I guess TSLA isn't the most shorted anymore (or is that temporary just because of the split?).
 
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was just browsing the news and saw this



So I guess TSLA isn't the most shorted anymore (or is that temporary just because of the split?).
It's a matter of % versus $$. TSLA is the most shorted in terms of $$. Beyond Meat in terms of %. There are enough Tesla shares shorted to buy Beyond Meat 10 times over.

EDIT: Ninja'd damn
 
was just browsing the news and saw this



So I guess TSLA isn't the most shorted anymore (or is that temporary just because of the split?).
Seems like the dollar amount is 16.92b as of today, our percentage of float is 2.7%@ 23,490,000 shares sold short. In comparison, apple is at $15.77 billion. The dollar amount is pretty high when Amazon and Nvidia are mid single billion digits. As for % of float, Tesla's short interest is not that high.

BYND has the dollar amount pegged at 732M and it's 38% of float. This makes it one of the heaviest shorted stock. Lucid is around 22% of float.
 
The way I look at it is that it sets a higher floor on things, but makes the swings more violent. Even in the absolute worst times of the SP500 era, the floor is ~580 and in this bear market we couldn't see it get below 620. Which is higher than any point pre-announcement IIRC. I don't think the next round of inclusion will have that level of impact... but we might see the floor set more in the ~700-730 range even on the biggest drawdowns. Flip side... more buying pressure on a lower float can shoot the stock higher in a very quick fashion.

(I'm not saying these are absolute floors if economics of the world or company change)
I guess i see this more as a pool and the depth is represented by the "float". This then implies that yes you can make some pretty big waves in a deep pool (lots of float) but it takes a lot of energy to do that. If you drain the pool, decreasing the float to a few inches, then it takes less energy to make a wave but the maximum wave possible is much smaller. So yeah maybe some more fluctuations but a lot less magnitude.
 
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I see 5 ‘funny’ and 3 ‘disagree’ emojis. I can understand ‘disagrees’ and one poster was kind enough to educate me with quite a few reasons why this tech is not mature or suitable yet.

But wondering what is so funny about what I asked? Just curious.

No idea. But this is what struck me from the wikipedia article: "relatively poor round trip efficiency". Which means it is expensive in terms of energy (and thus cost) if it is used all the time, as a Tesla Megapack replacement would be. So, as usual with seemingly any new battery technology, there are limitations which reduce its market applicability dramatically.
 
🤦

You’re so focused on being right about this (which you aren’t and all you needed to do was read the posts between your original one and this one and then just a few posts after this one for the answer) that you can’t even recognize when a poster is joking.

Overly serious and intense much?
Well, I'm right until somebody shows I'm wrong, which nobody has. Lots of "we wuz robbed!!" but no actual evidence. Lots of "I remember" but no links to anything. So yeah, I get riled up when people post stupidity and misinformation to this thread. Kind of similar to... you.

Well, except that Henri, le Chat Noir is totally cool. Whereas your avatar is... your avatar.
 
Is the 3:1 amount set in stone?

NASDAQ going green perhaps. Hope the MMD is over. Looks like the split was announced around 700 Per share.
Clarification... SP was over $1000 when Tesla announced its plan for a stock split on March 28th. SP was around $700 when they announced it would be 3-for-1 on June 10th.
 
I think it will do the exact opposite of stabilize it... right now there is a large float and a lot of liquidity due to retail. Retail is simply much more likely to buy AND sell compared to a passive fund...
That is indeed the notion we all tend to hold. It is probably indisputable that TSLA retail investors are far more active and involved than are those of any other large cap corporation.

However active they are there are some other factors. Tesla also has one of the largest insider holdings also, with around 40% held by them (that is not really precise due to the heavy combination of aging options and recently exercised ones that change totals. Combining those with 42% most recently reported for institutional gives us 80%, the average institutional holding percentage for the Fortune 500 in 2019.

That proportion is probably fairly typical, although some reports using other samples sometimes go to 90% or so.

For the last couple of months short interest has been between one day and 1.5 days to cover, running less than 3% of float.

Can retail account for all the volatility, or even a major part of it? That is possible, but not plausible.
In my opinion the primary culprit is market makers and large speculators. Most of the largest speculators have probably tired of periodically losing their gains and more. Market makers, though, are pleased to use all their ability to manipulate markets.

The only caveat in my view is that 'Robin Hood', they of taking from the poor to give to the rich, plus retail brokers are making quite excellent returns from retail, primarily from the small but growing number of gamblers who are drawn to quick riches. They're carefully cultivated because of those profits, even from margin lending itself. Almost no reliable information about those actual patterns is available, because the primary market makers are private and disclose almost nothing at all.

The 'rule of thumb' in large retail brokers not long ago was that 5% of the customers made all the money. Now with commission-free and custodial-charge free retail trades being the rule, it is probably more like 3% of customers making all the money. At this point all the major brokerage revenues are coming from the truth 'pawn shop and gambling' trade.

In this environment it is hard to imagine that some unusual factors exacerbate Tesla volatility. First, the largest shareholder lives on borrowed money and that is highly profitable business. Second, all the quasi-institutional sell-side and speculators are making the market maker coffers burst with glee.

So, no I don't think retail is really a major force, but thanks to various Citadel interests, retail is providing an increasingly attractive part of that.

The greatest risk is that all this histrionic behavior continues to detract from actually promoting the Tesla Mission. That is sad. HODL, 'live long and prosper'.
 
In Australia transport accounts for about 16% of emissions with light vehicles being responsible for about 10%. So while EV's can and will make a big difference there is a lot more work to be done in other areas. Australia is doing a lot in renewable energy to bring down our electricity emissions but needs to a lot more to reduce emissions from natural gas combustion, industrial processes, fugitive emissions and agriculture.

On a more positive note, the new Australian Federal Government passed legislation in the lower house today to lift our 2030 emissions reduction target from the previous 26% to 43%. Still a long way from the 75% needed but a step in the right direction.
Don't forget that the massive scaling of EV batteries/motors etc. will spill over into other areas and make them easier to electrify. Heavy vehicles, ships, grid storage, lawn equipment, heavy machinery etc.
 
If Lithium refining is such a money maker, as Elon claims, why doesn't Tesla do it themselves? Would have been a good question for tonight. Would also like to hear someone ask what are Tesla's earnings estimates for 2023 if they meet their production goals - it might wake up Wall Street.

Refining, I think they may get into it.

Mining, however, I have great pause to want them to go down that rabbit hole. The permitting for mining, at least in the USA, is very arduous and fraught with legal land mines, many of which can last for decades after a mine is closed down.
 
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If Lithium refining is such a money maker, as Elon claims, why doesn't Tesla do it themselves? Would have been a good question for tonight. Would also like to hear someone ask what are Tesla's earnings estimates for 2023 if they meet their production goals - it might wake up Wall Street.
From what I read it is only really worth it if you have the mine, too.
And permitting and building such a thing takes years on average. Dependend on the supply of the needed machines 😅

And if it still is a money printer in 2 years, who knows 🤷‍♀️
 
Refining, I think they may get into it.

Mining, however, I have great pause to want them to go down that rabbit hole. The permitting for mining, at least in the USA, is very arduous and fraught with legal land mines, many of which can last for decades after a mine is closed down.
I worry about optics as well. We already have to deal with "urr lithium mines done destroy environment that I so deeply care about which is why I drive an F250 to my office job".