Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Artful Dodger]

With apologies to Martin Luther King, Jr. “the arc of Market progression is long, but bends toward Value.”



Cheers to the Longs!

 

[Artful Dodger]

My wife had The Today Show news program going this morning. Big story on EVs that was pretty negative. First they talked about how expensive EVs are, with average price over $60k. Then they talked about limited ranges of around 200 miles, range loss in cold weather, and slow public charging. No mention of Tesla, Tesla network, Model Y for under $50k with IRA credit, Tesla ranges, etc. Basically said EVs are good city cars for short trips. Then they talked about how Hybrids are the best of both worlds.

Who were the sponsors of the hour on that TV show? IE: who's Ads paid for the hour?

The amount of mis-information on a major news network, on a subject with easy access to correct information, is just mind blowing. And we trust them on topics we know little about....

TL;dr Tesla doesn't pay for advertising.

 

[Max Plaid]

That is what we have for select Supercharger sites in UK and Europe. Pretty expensive for my FIAT500e, but in Dundee most times I go there half the people charging are non TESLA now. Lots of small trade vans such as Nissans or Renaults.View attachment 896693

Jeeze, neatly 6 years ago since I was there... I do miss my P85, especially the pano roof - it was a service nightmare, but I loved it open, all weather...

 

[Max Plaid]

Please don't feed the trolls I ignore.

We need a "what a bore" button

 

[scubastevo80]

Just got this email:

View attachment 896817

For TSLA's maybe - they have no choice. VROOM and Carvana are still ridiculously overpriced for most other cars. I'm looking at Honda Fits, and for a 2017 that cost $16,800 new, they want $19,500 for a used car with 58k miles on it. If these companies are still in business in 1-2 years, I'd be surprised.

 

[Favguy]

I think we're going to cross the Chicken Genius threshold this week . Finger lickin' good!

As long as we don't cross his new threshold it's all good!

 

[Max Plaid]

It's spelled Ghosn and he wasn't the guy responsible for the Leaf design.

Yeah, and he didn't get executed either...

 

[MartinAustin]

This is supposed to be the stock thread!!!
$131.49

 

[Artful Dodger]

I'm not saying Tesla would become an illegal monopoly.

Uh, yes you are, when you say this is little difference between Tesla and Standard Oil (which was an illegal monopoly). This is the slippery slope you're walking: h/t @MartinAustin

The "monopoly" discussion here is ill-advised. The Supercharger network is not a monopoly, you still have ways to charge your car without using it. Monopolies are when you simply have no other alternative. And we do not want opponents of Tesla to start using the word "monopoly" in the media! Yet another device to confuse the uninformed public.

TSLAQ loves this sloppy comparison, and it is wrong. I recommend you find a new analogy.

 

[Carl Raymond]

large OEMs and their suppliers will not be allowed to collapse.

Where does this belief come from? I suspect it’s because historically the car makers *have* been bailed - “too big to fail” is embedded in people’s thinking.

But it was different then, they had a prospect of recovery. I don’t see how bailout attempts can be justified when it’s clearly dead money. Not possible to turn a GM into a Tesla with any size bucket of cash.

 

[FSDtester#1]

This is supposed to be the stock thread!!!
$131.49

Thanks for pointing that out, I have been in the wrong thread for a while now.
I thought it was the Tesla "Stocking" thread. Leaving now. Stocks?? How 1982..

 

[ZeApelido]

We know out of all of us, I'm the furthest from a gossiper. Even so, I heard on a Spaces someone claim Musk 2 days ago had a (since deleted) tweet reply indicating Model Y prices would go up 3% in a few weeks.

 

[Ogre]

I think it’s safe to say that now that the market has had a chance to get their heads around this (and all the analysts polled their friends and family) that the price drop is considered good news. Now we just need 4th quarter earnings to be something other than a disappointment and we should see a decent recovery here. If it gains some momentum maybe a bit of the old short squeeze.

Setting deliberately low expectations here. We might see $150 by end of the month and $200 by June if we don’t step on a pile of sheep poop.

 

[thx1139]

According to Wikipedia, on average you can do it in a little over 4, leaving time for payment:

Now it has been a long time since I filled up at the pump, but I have never experienced 13 gallons in one minute. Lets also talk about at the worst time of the year (well for us cold weather people). When you gas up and it is freezing pumps can slow to a trickle, especially diesel. You also need to stand outside at the pump (well you should). With EVs we leave the house and car is fully charged, if we roadtrip we plug in and sit in the warm car with entertainment.

 

[jkirkwood001]

Good luck to all TMC tmrw! Hopefully we start this week off with a pop up to 130+

You called it.

 

[Ogre]

We know out of all of us, I'm the furthest from a gossiper. Even so, I heard on a Spaces someone claim Musk 2 days ago had a (since deleted) tweet reply indicating Model Y prices would go up 3% in a few weeks.

Skeptical.

Unless they have something in the wings to drop in below the LR to capture those rebate seeking folks.

 

[EVNow]

Where does this belief come from? I suspect it’s because historically the car makers *have* been bailed - “too big to fail” is embedded in people’s thinking.

This belief comes from understanding domestic politics of many countries. You don't have any major OEMs in Australia so I can understand you not understanding why it is not possible to let a few states economically collapse in the US (or several other countries).

You really think Japan is going to let Toyota collapse or Germany is going to let VW collapse .... ?

 

[Artful Dodger]

NO OTHER AUTOMAKERS DO THIS! (sorry to yell), but folks just don't understand this.

Sorry, little pink bunny Craig Irwin of Roth Capital Partners specifically told us that's EGREGIOUS!

/Sorry

 

[scaesare]

Now it has been a long time since I filled up at the pump, but I have never experienced 13 gallons in one minute. Lets also talk about at the worst time of the year (well for us cold weather people). When you gas up and it is freezing pumps can slow to a trickle, especially diesel. You also need to stand outside at the pump (well you should). With EVs we leave the house and car is fully charged, if we roadtrip we plug in and sit in the warm car with entertainment.

For those that have missed the point and think I'm arguing that the time spent at a supercharger is an egregious showstopper: I'm not.

I am simply supporting the point made by another forum member that there are indeed differences between an ICE vehicle and an EV, and one of them is "refueling time". As other folks have pointed out, the wikipedia quote of 13 gal/min for a passenger car fuel pump may be high, but I fueled up my 25 gallon Sequoia tank the other day, and it was probably about 4-5 minutes, from pull up to payment. Will the 50gal tank take longer? Sure. Maybe that becomes 8 mins. But clearly that's also not the average tanks size.

According to Tesla, "The Tesla Supercharger is the fastest charging option when you're away from home, allowing you to charge your car up to 200 miles in 15 minutes." In the example above of my Sequoia, I can go 375 miles on the fuel I got in that 5 minutes. To get the additional 175 miles in a Tesla (meaning you need to go to 93% on an S) You're going to be charging for 45 mins. Otherwise you are going to have to stop and charge almost twice as often, incurring not only the charge time, but the pull off time as well.

Again, is it a showstopper for me? No. But facts are facts, and our sticking our collective fingers in our ears pretending like they aren't only makes the detractors look at us as rabid fanbois and dismiss the valid comparisons we make and superiorities we do point out. I'd prefer to have a conversation about actual facts. There are enough EV advantages that we don't have to misrepresent the other factors.

 

[Drumheller]

We know out of all of us, I'm the furthest from a gossiper. Even so, I heard on a Spaces someone claim Musk 2 days ago had a (since deleted) tweet reply indicating Model Y prices would go up 3% in a few weeks.

That would be a very effective way to control the wait lists. Bounce between just under and just over the cutoff price, so price for those that don't qualify for tax credit doesn't increase much, but it greatly changes incoming order pace for those that do qualify