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The attack surface hasn’t really changed. There was a REST API (developed for the Tesla app) that is now a bit expanded with more granular security. Any company that has an app has the same security concerns.
We'll just have to disagree on this then. I believe that private and public APIs have completely different security risks. Private APIs present hardly any attack surface at all, as it's just the app that can be reasonably attacked. But once you have a public API and external developers, it gets vastly more difficult to control access.

Anyway, don't want to get into the weeds on this. Just pointing out that it's not just a magical revenue opportunity. In my opinion, the chance of serious external attack problems becomes much higher.
 
We'll just have to disagree on this then. I believe that private and public APIs have completely different security risks. Private APIs present hardly any attack surface at all, as it's just the app that can be reasonably attacked. But once you have a public API and external developers, it gets vastly more difficult to control access.

Anyway, don't want to get into the weeds on this. Just pointing out that it's not just a magical revenue opportunity. In my opinion, the chance of serious external attack problems becomes much higher.
the "private" apis have been documented and used by various third party apps for quite some years now.

Even if it were not the case, for hackers with some basic minimum skills for the job, it would be quite easy to discover all apis used in the tesla app, granted they may need to first have access to one tesla owner account.

The official tesla app is available on android and it is quite easy, with root access, to analyze rest api traffic in plaintext made by the tesla app simply by installing a self signed certificate and bypass ssl pinning. So whether tesla provide "public" documentation or not on the APIs that are already used by tesla app really made no difference to the attack surface
 
Elon says that he thinks about the fall of Rome. I’m betting he at least sometimes thinks about the day CRT televisions vanished from the shelves of electrical stores.
What caused that exactly? Was it flat screen TVs that were better than CRT units, but more expensive? Or was it because the flat screens were now *cheaper*, such that no right minded person would touch the CRT with a barge pole?
The mission is to…. (you guys know the rest).
Size and electrical use are likely the two big ones--particularly for office use. Once corporations started buying in mass, there was no incentive to make them just for home use.
 
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For the moment,there is no revenue opportunity, since the service is free (see ‘Discovery tier’ on that page): “This subscription plan is a temporary plan that will be replaced with different options in 2024”
Except for the incremental sales and derives that could happen with customised apps for Tesla product access to fleet operators, including Semi and large fleets that want to integrate vehicle and business operators/operations, including charging and servicing.

Those will reduce currently complex fleet management operations. That facilitates sales.
 
A developer API also introduces big risks. Suddenly, there's a whole new way to cause system failures that can affect everybody. Tesla has been very good so far at avoiding security-related bugs. But once this door is opened, it's a whole new ballgame.

If you know nothing about this, here's a term to understand that will provide a conceptual context:
I happen to know quite a lot about API security. ;)

There is always risk. But one of Tesla's greatest strengths is that it is willing to take risks when others won't. That's where a lot of opportunity comes from.
 
This is true (pending IRS guidance) for all China/LFP-equipped cars sold in the USA. It does not (again, subject to updated IRS rules) apply to leased cars, which will be able to capture the entire $7,500 IRA credit as a commercial vehicle (I defer to @mongo for the correct IRS interpretation).
Indeed, although I do not understand the upthread post of why a switch from Panasonic 2170 to Tesla 4680 is needed. Tesla is only getting a percentage of the IRA manufacturing credit from Panasonic, but the cells do meet requirements for vehicle credits (pending guidance, 10% increase in mineral and content requirements, and excluded entity treatment/ sourcing)

And, lo-and-behold, what did we see today? A $100/mth drop in the cost on a 36-mth term lease. That's a total of $3,600 which is SUSPICIOUSLY close to the $3,750 battery portion which China/LFP-cars may lose starting Jan 2nd, 2024 due to battery sourcing requirements of the IRA.

$3,600 is close to $3,750, but I don't follow the causality. Current leases are $7,500 credit eligible, so 2024 would see an effective increase on vehicle purchase pricing, making leases relatively cheaper. Lowering the lease payments increases that differential. Raising payments $100 or lowering sales price $3,750 maintains existing parity (for qualified purchasers).

Now, where does this money come from to finance the leases? I submit that Tesla raised over a billion USD in bonds last month from Wall-E and that is this leasing program that they are intending to fund.

Third party leases are also eligible, no change from current situation.

Now, I just wonder if the lease-backers will have some residual ownership of the returned cars? This is yet another way that Tesla could be planning to build it's own fleet of 3/Y cars for the Tesla Network (robotaxis). Note well that there cars will ALL be long-life LFP-battery equipped, which is the best choice for high annual-mileage fleet vehicles.
(Accountants, forgive me)
Ignoring destination fee: $7,500 credit + $4,500 down +$1,292 first, acquisition, order fees = $13,282 to Tesla/ 3rd party at inception on a $38,990 vehicle. Net is $25,700.
Monthly payments on the lease align with an 8 year 6% loan which gives a remaining principle of $17,500 after 3 years. (Likely not at all the way to calculate). However, Tesla as lessor would also pocket the interest of nearly $4k putting the vehicle remaining cost at $13,500 (yes, ignoring a lot of things). Backing out original profit of 20% (roughly) or $8,880 yields remaining 'cost' to Tesla of $4,700 a car.
 
Ripped and converted from X for your giffing needs. Probably best to save this one in the vault for the next ATH:

haha_cheers.gif
 
$3,600 is close to $3,750, but I don't follow the causality. Current leases are $7,500 credit eligible, so 2024 would see an effective increase on vehicle purchase pricing

Yes this is my point, that lease customers will continue to receive the full $7,500 IRA rebate after Jan 1st, 2024 because they lease the LFP-based car. If they insist on buying that same car, effectively they'll pay $3,750 more. This of course excludes the cost of financing, but I think most folks finance their cars (thru either loans or leases).

Cheaper than a Prius, and it's a TESLA! :D

Cheers!
 
We'll just have to disagree on this then. I believe that private and public APIs have completely different security risks. Private APIs present hardly any attack surface at all, as it's just the app that can be reasonably attacked. But once you have a public API and external developers, it gets vastly more difficult to control access.

Anyway, don't want to get into the weeds on this. Just pointing out that it's not just a magical revenue opportunity. In my opinion, the chance of serious external attack problems becomes much higher.
I guess I'm somewhere in-between you two on this.

What @NicoV said is absolutely true. Other companies have developer APIs that are architecturally similar. So it's not like the attack surface is some unknown quantity that we don't know how to secure.

I do think that if there was a breach then an attacker might be able to do a little more damage because the API itself is more robust then that of other automakers. (I'm assuming it's more robust. I haven't evaluated the functionality of other offerings.)

But it's not something I'm worried about. I think the opportunity far outweighs the risk.
 
Yes this is my point, that lease customers will continue to receive the full $7,500 IRA rebate after Jan 1st, 2024 because they lease the LFP-based car. If they insist on buying that same car, effectively they'll pay $3,750 more. This of course excludes the cost of financing, but I think most folks finance their cars (thru either loans or leases).

Cheaper than a Prius*, and it's a TESLA! :D

Cheers!
* Although not if you lease the Prius Prime SE. But as soon as you step up to XSE because you want some features like heated seats it becomes more expensive.
 
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Yes this is my point, that lease customers will continue to receive the full $7,500 IRA rebate after Jan 1st, 2024 because they lease the LFP-based car. If they insist on buying that same car, effectively they'll pay $3,750 more. This of course excludes the cost of financing, but I think most folks finance their cars (thru either loans or leases).

Cheaper than a Prius, and it's a TESLA! :D

Cheers!
Right... but why, if the lease holds the same credit, would there be a reason to further lower the lease payment?
Loss of purchase credit shifts lease vs buy by $3,750 (or $7,500 if pessimistic). Parity would be lowering the purchase price after loss of credit.

Different senario: if Tesla has lowered the cost to build the 3 by $3,600, they could be reflecting that in the lease price which will carry over to 2024, but not the purchase price which will take a credit hit. Essentially inflating the purchase price for the next 2.5 months yo avoid a step change Jan 1.
 
The first widely available flat screen TVs (e.g., Philips plasma) in the mid-'90s were like $16k. As prices dropped, CRTs quickly went out of favor. By the early 2000s it was over. The switch to digital TV came about then as well. So a lot of folks were upgrading anyway. We just sent off our last CRT TV for recycling a few months ago. Literally had to pay to have it taken away. Same story with computer monitors. (Though I still have my original Mac+ hiding from my wife in my workshop.)

Interestingly, flat panel displays have been around the computer industry for quite some time. The PLATO system developed at the U of Illinois used them in the 1970s. (I used PLATO a bit back then.) Though the pixels were orange against a black background. So really an "black and orange" display, rather than "black and white". But generally CRTs have been used in the computer industry until the LCD and LED displays became economical.
The switch to LCD was known to be coming a few years ahead of when it began in earnest.

The technology and manufacturing knowledge was there, but they needed new display factories to be built that could make cheap, large LCD displays.
After those opened, there was a 5 year period in which the (expanding) display market went from 3% LCD 97% CRT to 97% LCD 3% CRT.

There's a potential shift to EVs like that coming, but the scaling challenge is much bigger.
 
Count me as skeptical of the entire sand casting theory. Regardless of the problems cited by others, any casting done on site will require a large enough furnace to melt the full charge of the mold cavity plus spurs, risers and runners. The metal can't just be liquid, it must be exactly the right temperature and it is not a sure thing that the cavity will completely fill on the first try. The mold may have to be tweaked. I may be wrong but I don't see this happening for a limited run like dies for the gigapress.

Could you imagine the FUD if Tesla made gigacastings out of sand?

"Tesla owners annoyed by the little bit of sand that gets into their shoes after each bump on the road"

"Cities fear workers will take more vacation days every time a Tesla crashs turns an intersection into a beach"

"In the next Die Hard, John McClane crawls over a football field's worth of glass that came from molten sand after a Tesla fiery crash"
 
Could you imagine the FUD if Tesla made gigacastings out of sand?

"Tesla owners annoyed by the little bit of sand that gets into their shoes after each bump on the road"

"Cities fear workers will take more vacation days every time a Tesla crashs turns an intersection into a beach"

"In the next Die Hard, John McClane crawls over a football field's worth of glass that came from molten sand after a Tesla fiery crash"

"Tesla takes sandbagging to a whole new level, competitors flounder in the wave of transition crashing upon their shores"

... oh, wait, that isn't FUD

Nevermind