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With all due deference to Australian Customs and Border Services, the VW Beetle diesel is still the original "stink bug"... :D

Stink Bug.jpg


Aussie, Aussie, Aussie...
Oi, Oi, Oi!
;)
 
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This is confusing to me… if I have <$300k in AGI, why am I spending $72k on a car? Amazing that this happens.
Besides those reasons already mentioned such as retirees, there are others.

Remember, you have two consecutive tax years to qualify. So you get to pick the lower AGI. It's easy to manipulate your AGI for one of those tax years. As an overall tax strategy, we do all of our charitable giving in odd-numbered years. So every other year my wife and I have a much lower AGI.

Rather than lump deductions into one year, some have the ability to lump income into one year. Or you could do both strategies.

Just manipulate your AGI for one tax year and you can qualify.
 
Tesla sold 16012 cars in Belgium in 2023 compared to 4789 in 2022.
Since june 2023, company cars need to be full EV in to be fully tax deductible over their entire depreciation cycle. Apparently lots of companies didn’t wait for this deadline.
Tesla had more than 5% market share in December 23 (3.36% over Y23), with only 5 brands selling more cars. I wouldn’t be surprised if Tesla was number 2 or even 1 in December 23 since the difference with most of those other brands is only a couple of 100 cars.
 
This is confusing to me… if I have <$300k in AGI, why am I spending $72k on a car? Amazing that this happens.
I know, right? At that income level you should get a Beast Cybertruck.
Seriously, people have this base assumption that expanses are proportionate to income. If one has no student loans, no kids at home, no credit card debt, a paid off car, and a low mortgage rate on a 15+ year old purchase, their total yearly expenses can be well south of $100k. Meaning they can buy a $75k car with cash every year if they made $300k.

A Foundation Cybertruck financed is ~24k a year. Adjusting for 30% state and federal tax, that's $34k gross. So if someone can live off an AGI of $250k, they can have a Cybertruck and live off an AGI of $284k.
 
This is confusing to me… if I have <$300k in AGI, why am I spending $72k on a car? Amazing that this happens.

Lots of good reasons as already mentioned. But what’s wrong with someone with AGI below $300,000 buying a $72,000?

For example, someone can have close to $400,000 in gross income but have their AGI be below $300,000. we have over $90,000 in tax deferred space (401k, etc) max that out and AGI is below $300k. Even with high spending (roughly $100,000 per year goes a long way with no mortgage, no debt, etc) you still have roughly $120,000 left over after taxes to save on top of the $90,000 in tax deferred contributions. A $72,000 car doesn’t seem to unreasonable in that scenario.

Granted, the most I have ever spent on a car is my model Y and probably wouldn’t spend $72k+ on a car, but doesn’t seem unreasonable with this type of income.
 
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I know, right? At that income level you should get a Beast Cybertruck.
Seriously, people have this base assumption that expanses are proportionate to income. If one has no student loans, no kids at home, no credit card debt, a paid off car, and a low mortgage rate on a 15+ year old purchase, their total yearly expenses can be well south of $100k. Meaning they can buy a $75k car with cash every year if they made $300k.

A Foundation Cybertruck financed is ~24k a year. Adjusting for 30% state and federal tax, that's $34k gross. So if someone can live off an AGI of $250k, they can have a Cybertruck and live off an AGI of $284k.

While living in the Inland Empire (Los Angeles suburbia), my famlily including 2 kids survived on a $110k annual single working parent income. Granted, I am a total cheapskate though. No credit card debt, bought a used MX that validated my minor TSLA investment, so I turned it into a much more significant investment.
 
I know, right? At that income level you should get a Beast Cybertruck.
Seriously, people have this base assumption that expanses are proportionate to income. If one has no student loans, no kids at home, no credit card debt, a paid off car, and a low mortgage rate on a 15+ year old purchase, their total yearly expenses can be well south of $100k. Meaning they can buy a $75k car with cash every year if they made $300k.

A Foundation Cybertruck financed is ~24k a year. Adjusting for 30% state and federal tax, that's $34k gross. So if someone can live off an AGI of $250k, they can have a Cybertruck and live off an AGI of $284k.

You need to get with the program you confounded rebel rouser.

How can we keep inflation going if people pay cash for everything? Those poor little banks desperately need people to "borrow" (actually, creating the money that inflates the supply) in order to remain profitable.

Do you want to see starving bankers on the sidewalk living in tents?

It is imperative that everyone does their part, focus on improving their credit score, and strive to borrow all they can in order to live beyond their means so their neighbors feel like they must catch up.

To discount these income-based strategies for determining the right car loan or home loan payment could lead to a stable economy where everyone lives on what they bring home and (gasp) saves money instead of borrowing it.

What you are proposing could lead to utter chaos and destruction of a centuries-old institution of banker's control over government and populations as perfected by the immortal (immoral?) Rothchild family.

Give this some thought next time, before letting such a cat out of the bag, won't you?

Disclaimer: no cats were bagged for the making of this post and the author neither supports nor condones the practice of bagging cats.

/s
 
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I know, right? At that income level you should get a Beast Cybertruck.
Seriously, people have this base assumption that expanses are proportionate to income. If one has no student loans, no kids at home, no credit card debt, a paid off car, and a low mortgage rate on a 15+ year old purchase, their total yearly expenses can be well south of $100k. Meaning they can buy a $75k car with cash every year if they made $300k.

A Foundation Cybertruck financed is ~24k a year. Adjusting for 30% state and federal tax, that's $34k gross. So if someone can live off an AGI of $250k, they can have a Cybertruck and live off an AGI of $284k.
Wow! I don’t live in the world you guys live in. I have trouble believing the income differentials across the country. Might explain a lot of the political, social and other problems. In spite of that Teslas are multiplying like rabbits around here. However the ride of choice is a $70,000 pickup on 35s. If the Cybertruck catches on, they will sell like hot cakes.
 
If you believe that Elon has suppressed SP to ensure staff don't become millionaires and leave / reduce working hours etc.. what is the benefit to us long term investors?

We can experience nearly as high of gains as a Tesla employee buying stock at a discount? 🤷‍♂️

Speaking of which, is the time right for @Big Time to do the annual periodic maintenance on the spanking machine?
 
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Besides those reasons already mentioned such as retirees, there are others.

Remember, you have two consecutive tax years to qualify. So you get to pick the lower AGI. It's easy to manipulate your AGI for one of those tax years. As an overall tax strategy, we do all of our charitable giving in odd-numbered years. So every other year my wife and I have a much lower AGI.

Rather than lump deductions into one year, some have the ability to lump income into one year. Or you could do both strategies.

Just manipulate your AGI for one tax year and you can qualify.
Clever!
 
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Speaking of which, is the time right for @Big Time to do the annual periodic maintenance on the spanking machine?
Funny you should ask……

Last night I managed to fall down the stairs and low and behold, as my head glanced off the railing on the way down I noticed a small box labeled “Danger Keep Out” up in the rafters. As I reeled in pain, I noticed a wet spot on my leg. Realizing I was drinking a glass of my favorite beverage, I began hoping it was blood vs. finding my delicious beverage had entirely been spilled.

Never the less, I arose and began to go about my normal routine, drew a bath, brushed my teeth and climbed into my bed, extinguished the candle, and drifted into slumber.

In the middle of the night I was awoken by a noise….. a thumping repetitive dull sound coming from downstairs. As I climbed out of bed, I relit the candle, tossed on a robe(My ultra soft “BareAzz Comfort Cruizer”) and proceeded to head towards the noise…..

Thump….thump…thump….. with every step I took I was closer and closer to the noise….. I found myself looking up at the box I had ignored all these years….. I grabbed the box carefully, lowered it to my work bench and opened it…

At first I could not see what was inside due to all of the dust and cobwebs…..but when finally the debris had been cleared, I noticed a glint of light reflect off of something metallic. I was dumbfounded as I discovered the “Shorty Thumper 4500” roto paddles with “Deluxe RedAzz Technology”. It appears that before I lived in the house someone else was tinkering down here in the basement…..

We were never kinder to the old shorts during the whole week before we spanked them……

We will prevail, the new prototype is in R&D and will be ready for ATHs


Go TESLA
Go TSLA

Happy new year to all TMC !
 
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Well, I have to say I've been asking the same question(s) and "worrying" about the same thing. But, as far as S-curves of adoption go, you can't assume that the consumer and market is the same as it was in 2023. Tesla put another 1.8 MILLION advertisements on wheels on the road in 2023. Many of those owners probably have positive word-of-mouth opinions to share. I have to believe that the consumer is evolving and with Ford and GM reducing their supply, hopefully that's an opportunity to sell cars to the increasing numbers of BEV buyers. I think Tesla is very nimble and am anxious to see what they have in mind to combat the model 3 subsidy issue.

Well, there's a few different issues at work here both on supply side and demand side...

On the supply side, where does Tesla get batteries (and factory capacity) for 700,000 more cars in 2024? Troy actually hit on this exact thing overnight-


Austin run rate is 160k/yr, this could go as high as 500k but there's no batteries to do that. They HAVE to be US 2170s or 4680s because otherwise you end up making a non-IRA subsidy Model Y nobody will buy because you're still making lots of subsidy ones too. Those batteries simply do not exist (2170s are all accounted for, AFAIK GF Nevada has no major expansion in progress for more, and 4680s are all going to the CT ramp). So there's no practical way to significantly ramp US production at all right now with the IRA overhang requiring US cells and no place to get them.

Berlin current run rate is 200k/yr, they can go to 250k with the current shifts, they could go 375k with a third-500k with a 4th, but have suggested current staffing costs make the extra shifts cost prohibitive. But even if we pretend night labor is the same cost (which it's not) that only gets you 300k more supply--- enough to go from 1.8M this year to 2.1M next year (plus whatever bits you get from CT and Shanghai efficency improvements). More realistically you get between 50k and 175k if they add one of the two shifts they don't currently run at best- so between that and the bits of CT and Shanghai you get your 2-2.1M and no more on production.

So to get to 2.5M you're pretty heavily short on supply unless you magically find US made cells for at least an extra ~350,000 cars AND solve the Berlin labor cost issue.


On the demand side I don't get folks who think 3 sales will somehow go UP significantly when Tesla lost the credits on most of the 3s they sell in the US. And some seem to think they've got some trick to fix that, but can't seem to even offer a theory on what it COULD be under the law. There simply are no more qualifying cells to put into those cars today. The obvious "plan" was they'd be the 2170s that are instead going into Ys, which were supposed to be getting 4680s that haven't ramped fast enough to do so. One thing I suppose they could do is start making the 3 in Berlin and shift those chinese 2170s over there and just stop selling the LR AWD 3 here as they did a while ago- but don't think the lines are set up to do this today and you're still at best offsetting lost sales from the IRA drop, not generating a ton of new ones.

As to the Y- see again Tesla HAS a bunch of under-used capacity at both Berlin and Austin where they could have made a ton more Ys (not 700k but hundreds of k) in 2023 if they thought there were a ton more buyers for them- but they did not. Plus days of supply did not move- in times when demand significantly exceeded production it went down. In Q1 2022 before the price spikes supply was down to -3- days, vs 17 now. Troy has data on this stuff as well based on backlog times and other data and again suggests the # of buyers at current prices isn't going to get anywhere near the ~40% larger in 2024 in current markets that a 2.5M target would require. Add in the headwinds of Tesla losing not just the 3 credits in the US, but also losing EV credits in Germany and elsewhere. Selling to new markets would be an option here, but what markets are left that'll turn up >half a million buyers? And again where do those half million cars come from, with what batteries?


2-2.1M is reasonably realistic based on what we know of Teslas scaling capacity at current factories, battery supply limits (esp. in the US for US cells), and the fact Highland will at least somewhat offset what'll have to be weird price adjustments on the 3 in the US (and maybe elsewhere EVs are losing subsidies this year too).

2.5M I just don't see how you get there on either side of the curve. If someone has a solid model for how they do (not just "tesla surely has a plan!' or "demand is infinite at any price and supply will just appear!") I'd absolutely love to see it.
 
On the demand side I don't get folks who think 3 sales will somehow go UP significantly when Tesla lost the credits on most of the 3s they sell in the US. And some seem to think they've got some trick to fix that, but can't seem to even offer a theory on what it COULD be under the law.

Maybe not up, but leases still get $7,500 to Tesla which makes a Model 3 $329 a month.
 
They HAVE to be US 2170s or 4680s because otherwise you end up making a non-IRA subsidy Model Y nobody will buy because you're still making lots of subsidy ones too
Do they really need to be made in the US, or do they just need to not be made in a "country of concern"? Would batteries from South Korea be acceptable? What about batteries made in Canada?
 
Maybe not up, but leases still get $7,500 to Tesla which makes a Model 3 $329 a month.


Sure- but Tesla still doesn't let you buy out the lease.

A lot of folks going the lease-hack-the-$7500 are doing so because they use the lease to get the $7500 they otherwise can't with intent to immediate buy out the lease-- thus effectively getting $7500 off a purchase.

I will say Tesla could always, for the first time, allow purchase of a 3 on lease-- THAT would certainly help... (starting purchase pricing would still look weird, but there'd effectively be no reason to purchase at that price ever vs the lease-then-buy-out option).... Doing that, plus highland, would be a great plan to announce together in fact (and heck, allow it on legacy 3s left in inventory at that point to to move them).

I don't see 700k new sales that way but it's the one realistic move I see Tesla having on the IRA issue with the 3...and would bring a lot more folks in than the current lease-but-you-have-no-option-to-keep system where Tesla leases very few cars relative to anyone else.



Do they really need to be made in the US, or do they just need to not be made in a "country of concern"? Would batteries from South Korea be acceptable? What about batteries made in Canada?

AFAIK those would be fine-- the 18650s from Japan are fine. But do you know of anybody in either place that has hundreds of thousands of cars worth of 2170s for sale?

SK in particular I thought Hyundai/Kia was buying up all local supply they could find and complaining they can't get more.