Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I guess it depends on what you mean by sharing a platform with a consumer version. There will definitely be a lot of commonality in the architecture annd technology, and a modified Gen3 consumer car could certainly make a decent robotaxi. The modular unboxed manufacturing process and structural battery pack help make it easier to add variety to the parts of the vehicle above the skateboard. Still, a robotaxi fleet comprising minimally modified consumer cars would be far from optimal when compared to a family of dedicated robotaxis designs.

Specialized solutions, in their niche, will always outperform generic solutions. The more you can narrow the design requirements and objectives for a system, the more you can optimize its design with customization. A robotaxi has many fundamentally different marketing considerations than a consumer vehicle has. Some key differences include:
  • 3-10x more usage per day
  • They will either be "bought" internally by Tesla or bought by third-party businesses, but not by retail customers
  • Exterior styling and sporty performance less important; cabin experience more important
  • Most will never leave their local service area
  • Instead of an individual serving all the various needs of an individual person or household, a fleet of vehicles will serve the collective needs of a whole local market
  • Most of the time, occupant ingress & egress will occur from the curb side (right-hand side in most markets). Also, disability accommodations are necessary.
  • Many of the safety regulations for human-driven vehicles do not apply
  • Service will be performed by fleet management teams, not individuals and third parties
  • Speculative opportunities:
    • Cargo variant
    • Higher speed limit
    • Optimizing for operation in Boring Company Loops
These high-level requirement differences will translate into major differences in design.

The vastly greater usage rate profoundly affects the economic value calculus. It is easier to justify greater upfront capital expenses for a robotaxi than for consumer cars, because the payoff comes much quicker. For example, suppose the engineers are choosing between two designs. One design is less expensive to produce, but it only has 250k miles of useful life. The alternative design would cost $10k more, but it will reduce lifetime per-mile maintenance costs and will have a useful life of 500k miles. Most retail car buyers would prefer the first design if the savings were passed on via a $10k discount, but the second design is better for a robotaxi that will be used for 100k miles per year.

Consumer psychology factors into this as well. Traditional car design is largely based upon appealing to (irrational) consumer preferences. For example, this is the only reason why so many cars today have enormous front grills, which exist only for appearance, not functionality. Retail buyers focus on factors like style, perceived safety, performance, driving feel, and perhaps most importantly for many customers, what the vehicle will communicate about their identity and social status. People also tend to strongly discount the future and focus more on short-term costs and benefits. Businesses operate more on long-term planning and spreadsheet models. They will look at depreciation, amortization and maintenance much more rationally than a typical retail customer. Durability is just one example of this utilization-rate effect on the design tradeoffs. I expect people will have different psychological relationship with a robotaxi they're riding in, such that cabin experience, price, and service convenience become the more dominant considerations.

When conforming to conventional external aesthetic norms no longer matters much, what else changes? Let's start with a throwback to a first-principles design from GM, the old EV1. This is likely closer to what a two-seater robotaxi should look like. That weird-looking fairing over the rear wheel well improves aerodynamics, and so does the bubbly body shape and the taper on the aft end of the car. This design is excellent for aerodynamics, which translates to better energy efficiency and less cabin noise, but most retail customers would say this looks ugly and dorky.

View attachment 1036451 View attachment 1036454

If Tesla expects that robotaxis, due to their safety and millisecond-scale reaction time, will eventually be approved for top speeds much higher than we legally allow humans to drive on public roads, then aerodynamic efficiency becomes even more important. Additionally, if Tesla expects the Boring Co concept to be successful, it could be worthwhile to tailor the design to serve that use case better.

While styling and exterior aesthetics will matter less, the cabin experience becomes much more important, and the design objectives for the cabin differ too.
  • It needs to have better night lighting
  • The suspension and tires should be tuned more for comfort, NVH damping, and stability, and less for sporty handling performance and driving feel
  • Extra insulation material could be added to further attenuate NVH
  • It also could make more sense to give the robotaxi a fancy, Model S-like audio system
  • The back seats will be more important because they'll be used far more often than in a consumer car
  • Productivity features like tables and electrical outlets might be worth including
  • The cabin needs to be designed for flexibility to accommodate a variety of seating configurations (and maybe cargo configurations too) without compromising overall cost and complexity too much
For a $25k consumer car, this stuff simply does not fit in the budget nor in the design priorities, but, to reiterate, for a durable, high-usage robotaxi there is more budget for cabin upgrades without increasing average cost per mile by much. Teslas, and most EVs, have thus far been marketed with performance and driving excitement as one of the main selling points, whereas robotaxis will be marketed more based on the quality of the cabin experience.

Because most robotaxis will stay local, most of them will not need a large battery. Most EVs today have far more battery capacity than is used on a daily basis. The capacity is sized mainly to allow for occasional long trips and for convenience of customers who aren't able to charge at home or at work. For robotaxi fleets, this is a major optimization opportunity. The design of the robotaxi platform will likely include variants with batteries much too small to be competitive as consumer EVs. Transportation demand fluctuates throughout the day, week and year, but especially daily. Fleet capacity will need to accommodate the highest-demand periods. The rest of the time, a substantial portion of vehicles will be unnecessary and will sit idle, serving only the morning and evening rush hours. Therefore, cars with 50-100 miles of range may be useful for this niche. Especially now that Tesla makes structural battery packs, this could affect chassis undercarriage design.

The battery size variation can only work because the fleet of vehicles will serve the collective needs of a whole local market. This new design optionality will also affect vehicle sizing, seating arrangements, luggage space, and even whether to design for a cargo variant to serve last-mile and low-demand delivery routes. Balancing all the needs of a single customer with a single vehicle severely constrains the design options and requires major compromises. The biggest compromise is seating capacity. Almost all trips are with one or two occupants, for an average utilization factor that's probably around 20-25%. Robotaxi networks should be able to perform about 2-4x better on this metric, if the family of vehicles in the fleet is designed specifically for this purpose. As @MC3OZ noted, the two-seater also could be designed for a narrower body to further improve aero drag, weight, size and cost. If narrow enough, two-seaters could even hypothetically drive two across in Boring Co Loops, which are just barely wide enough to make this a plausible possibility.



Most of the time, passenger ingress & egress will occur from the curb side. Due to this asymmetry in typical loading/unloading patterns, it might make sense to have a laterally asymmetrical vehicle design and unconventional door configurations. Should there be bigger apertures on the primary entry/exit side? Should there be a sliding door like a van or dual sliding doors like the Zoox robotaxi prototype (see image below)? Rear doors as suicide doors (i.e. hinge on C-pillar instead of B-pillar) in order to enable a large single opening?

View attachment 1036468

Also, at least some of the robotaxis will need to provide accessibility for disabled people. The design decisions for the doors and surrounding structure and wiring also may affect design decisions regarding wheelchair ramp integration.

There are even more questions when we take it to first principles and look at the details. Should the low-speed, high-capacity, urban vehicle be longitudinally symmetrical like the Zoox so that it can drive in either direction equally well, to increase flexibility in tight spaces and save precious time on turning around? If we design for aero efficiency without side mirrors and with a radically unconventional rear end design, how does that affect the optimal upstream aero design of the front end? Since the driving is done with only cameras, do we still need a wiper for the entire windshield? If not, how does that affect the rest of the vehicle design, from the slope of the windshield to the arrangement of internal subsystems? How does deletion of the steering wheel and wiring (looking at Cybertruck drive-by-wire as the current state of the art) affect the configuration and layout of other subsystems? When you aren't constrained by driver visibility angles, how does that affect the design of the A pillar? And so on.

None of this stuff should be considered in isolation, because there are all sorts of interdependencies in the design. It's not just about deleting unnecessary parts and processes. It's also about exploiting the new opportunities that arise when those parts are no longer taking up space and constraining other design choices. Good vehicle design requires intelligent systems integration, which Tesla has always focused on and excelled at. I expect they will continue to do so with the robotaxi platform, and that's why it probably will have major differences from consumer vehicles.
Thank you, Gigapress. Your post make me to think and speculate a bit and I came to the conclusion that Robotaxi could be truly revolutionary. I think it could transform the world like the iPhone did, with the major difference that there is no Competitior/Android in sight.

Many in this forum could enjoy FSD V12.3. I think we are all bound to our experiences and when we try to predict the future we start with our own experiences.

But, in my opinion, this will be not only be a revolution of (low cost) personal transport, this will also be a revolution of (low cost) material transport. I think Tesla did not target the delivery segment so far because Elon thought the whole time L5 is just around the corner. Elon was wrong, but I personally don’t think Elon will be wrong forever.

I read in this forum that many disengagement of FSD 12.3 are at the very beginning or at the very end of a particular journey. When we think about material transport, the challenge is the same. The beginning and the end of the journey. Luckily Tesla has a solution for this in mind - Optimus.

My prediction is: Robotaxi will not only be a robotic taxi, it will also serve as a taxi for a robot to enable material transport.

When we think about the usage of a taxi service over the day there are clearly hours in the morning and in the evening with high demand in personal transport. During many other hours, there is low demand for personal transport and during the night the demand is very low. During these hours, Robotaxi and Optimus can be used to transport parcels and anything we can think of.

When we think of the requirements of the robotaxi service, hygiene will be important. The car will be easy to clean and kept clean. But also the air will be cleaned and it is not so difficult from a technical standpoint to offer an air quality similar to in an operation room at the beginnig of the drive (source: I have experience in designing pharmaceutical plants). I imagine that some will never use public transport again.

Also entertainment during the journey will be important. For this purpose, each passenger will have his own dispay.

Special needs will be important. For example you will be able to book a childs seat with your drive, a hassle when renting a car today in my experience.

Versatility will be important. The seats can be laid flat down (by Optimus) to expand the cargo space.

Now lets focus to how the car will be produced. The battery needs only to be about 25 kWh. Tax credits or manufacturing credits don‘t really matter. Cheap LFP batteries will be imported from China if no domestic supply is available. AWD, high performance and high speed are no requirement for Robotaxi. Also the charge rate is of less importance. The system will allocate the cars and the requested drives and ensure that the available battery capacity is sufficient in 95 % of the drives (and could offer a discount if charging is needed during a particular trip). So I don‘t expect that Tesla will be battery constrained. I am confident that Elon will do what it takes to start production of Robotaxi as soon there is a regulatory approval in one city. I don‘t think the speed of the production ramp will be of particular importance since many other challenges need to be solved concurrent to offer a robotaxi service.

I think the production cost for Robotaxi will be much lower than 25‘000 USD in mass production. I think it will not be possible to buy one for at least some years. So the whole responsibility is at Tesla and with the data aquired during use Tesla can optimize their efforts. I hope this reduces the complaints of unhappy owners for example if the battery degrades too fast. Tesla will earn money for every drive and the offered rates could be similar to the existing rates of competitors (eg. Uber, Fedex, UPS, Public Transport).

I think the low cost car plan (model 2) was not scrapped. But who will really care about model 2 as soon as robotaxi is established in the market?

While I don‘t know which of my predictions will turn out to be true, I think this post shows the potential of Robotaxi.

There were many critical posts in the last days, written by a long standing, now disappointed forum member. I can understand that. However, we are never able to change what happened in the past and therefore we need to look ahead. So, lets do a simple napkin scenario analysis regarding FSD/Robotaxi (put in your own numbers and outcomes):
  • Worst Case Scenario: Tesla scraps all plans for Level 5 autonomy by End of 2025 => Let’s assume a shareprice of 100.
  • Best Case Scenario: Robotaxi service incl. Optimus support is introduced in the major cities in the US by End of 2025 with a clear path to fast expand the service to other areas => Let’s assume a shareprice of 600.
It is possible to do this regarding other topics, e.g. how high is the risk that Elon writes stuipd posts on X and how would the shareprice react.

So it seems that there is some potential to the upside regarding FSD/Robotaxi. We are investing because we are willing to take risks and because we are willing to support the mission. Investing, particularly investing in TSLA, is not easy.

Hold on your butts!
 
There's nothing woke up the physics of what's happening to our planet. The data is there. He needs to go back to "first principles" thinking.
I think he is looking at first principles, albeit with some that are philosophical, not physical. I think the message he was trying to rebut was that of the growing contingent of environmentalists who are antinatalist and who view humans as an irredeemable cancer on the Earth. Not only does he have a fundamental philosophical disagreement with that viewpoint, more importantly, human extinction would doom all other forms of terrestrial life to extinction. Most people do not realize this. In the grand scheme of things, a sixth mass extinction event caused by human ignorance, greed and recklessness would not be the end of the story for advanced multicellular life. The fossil record shows that it has come roaring back from far worse catastrophes. What will be the end of the world, though, is the Sun. A few hundred million years from now, the aging Sun will gradually heat up and expand, eventually annihilating all life on this planet. In SpaceX presentations, Elon has pointed out that we are about 90% of the way through the window of time in which carbon-based life can exist on Earth. Taking life multiplanetary is the only hope for perpetuation of life as we know it. Obviously, this is only possibly with advanced industrial civilization with sufficiently advanced technology, which luckily has arrived just in time. It's up to our generation to find ways to make technological abundance environmentally sustainable while spreading life beyond Earth.
 
Since this is officially, mod approved so to speak, a weekend FSD thread, I’ll add this.

While I haven’t tried it, I’d think that hitting “end trip” would stop FSD without registering a disengagement event. Also, not sure about newer S/X, but the older cars have not offered a prompt after a disengagement event, at least my refreshed 2016 S never did with V11 FSD.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: GOVA
Some of my disengagements so far are from wanting to drive more aggressively than my car (passing the car ahead quickly on a winding road - legal but you have to be aggressive to be safe). This won't reflect most disengagements, but just pointing out x% are perhaps even the opposite (my disengagement actually increases the chance of an accident, but I chose that risk for the sake of arriving on time due to ultra-cautious drivers going 10 under the speed limit on a winding 2-way highway).

Edit: of course, if I was smart, I'd end FSD by tapping up on my Model Y shifter stalk rather than just turning my steering wheel... That'll take time to make it an instinct. Don't know how it works on cars with no stalks...
Hi, all --

<snip a bunch of other participants>

"Disengagments" aren't the relevant stat for robotaxi/personal chauffeur purposes, it's "critical disengagements". We're not talking about, "The car behind me honked, so I took over" here.

Yours,
RP
 

I think even Franz is having fun with the confusion. I guess "Don´t always believe what you read" is aimed at Reuters, not Elon ;)...

He seems relaxed, and given he was one of the people who convinced Elon to keep the regular car and not do robotaxi I am pretty sure now that they´ll anounce both the manual drive car and the robotaxi on 8/8.

I'm not sure of anything at this point. The fact that Franz essentially gave a "wait and see" response isn't reassuring that there isn't at least some truth to the Reuters article. He could have easily said "yes, we are still planning to build the $25K consumer car", yet for some reason he did not.

I think anything is possible. We know we'll see the RT on 8/8, but whether or not we see the consumer version, or even if we'll get a confirmation that it's still being planned, well I'm not sure of any of it right now.

One thing I do know, FSD v12.3.3 is freaking impressive, and I'm dying to see how much v12.4 improves upon it. Tesla seems very confident in RT's today, more so than I've ever seen them before. That's extremely bullish no matter what happens to the consumer Gen3, IMHO.
 
Cybertruck sold out for this year: Orders now show delivery dates next year rather than 2024. Posted by greggertruck on X.

I wonder if that means all will be Foundation Series this year.

We’ve a hit on our hands! Way to go Tesla! We love you Elon and everyone at Tesla! 👏🏻
How did that happen? 😮

The last ‘wave’ of invites for Foundation that I recall was the shareholder qualification. What date did that happen?

So, even with the ramp continuing all year long, CT anything/everything is sold out for the entire year by the end of the first week in April!?

Good thing it can’t tow, takes 6 hrs to charge, and you can’t see 5’ in front of it at night. Otherwise it may have sold out last week for year.
 
I'm not sure of anything at this point. The fact that Franz essentially gave a "wait and see" response isn't reassuring that there isn't at least some truth to the Reuters article. He could have easily said "yes, we are still planning to build the $25K consumer car", yet for some reason he did not.
Can we please stop with the made up confusion and unsureness, and expecting someone from Tesla, like Franz, to say something they CANNOT say publicly.

The cheaper/compact/Gen 2/whatever has NOT been canceled at this point in time.

The robotaxi will be revealed 8/8. End of story.
 
So, what if the world just became more synchronized? Just throwing it out there and not looking to debate it on the forum.

It took a while but eventually even the slower amongst our species finally realized that Tesla’s charging standard and network was better than the rest by a mile. No contest.

I see a truly different world ahead for mankind if we hope to survive. Won’t happen in our (you and I at least) lifetime, but I believe it needs to happen. I’m not suggesting one culture, but I am suggesting getting on the same page about a lot of things to make lives for all more streamlined and as a byproduct, more rewarding. UBI, road design/road markings (tunnels and FSD), access to high speed Internet for all, renewable energy for all and done such a way that it’s essentially free, bots - Can people not see what he sees, so wrapped up in all the ways they think and believe it can’t work, instead of the ways it could work?

FYI, just picked your post from the hat in which to respond. And I truly am not wanting to debate all the ways in which it can’t possibly happen. Everyone is already doing a bang up job of that.
In the not-too-distant future all vehicles will be able to communicate, making accidental collisions a thing of the past.
 
Thank you, Gigapress. Your post make me to think and speculate a bit and I came to the conclusion that Robotaxi could be truly revolutionary. I think it could transform the world like the iPhone did, with the major difference that there is no Competitior/Android in sight.

Many in this forum could enjoy FSD V12.3. I think we are all bound to our experiences and when we try to predict the future we start with our own experiences.

But, in my opinion, this will be not only be a revolution of (low cost) personal transport, this will also be a revolution of (low cost) material transport. I think Tesla did not target the delivery segment so far because Elon thought the whole time L5 is just around the corner. Elon was wrong, but I personally don’t think Elon will be wrong forever.

I read in this forum that many disengagement of FSD 12.3 are at the very beginning or at the very end of a particular journey. When we think about material transport, the challenge is the same. The beginning and the end of the journey. Luckily Tesla has a solution for this in mind - Optimus.

My prediction is: Robotaxi will not only be a robotic taxi, it will also serve as a taxi for a robot to enable material transport.

When we think about the usage of a taxi service over the day there are clearly hours in the morning and in the evening with high demand in personal transport. During many other hours, there is low demand for personal transport and during the night the demand is very low. During these hours, Robotaxi and Optimus can be used to transport parcels and anything we can think of.

When we think of the requirements of the robotaxi service, hygiene will be important. The car will be easy to clean and kept clean. But also the air will be cleaned and it is not so difficult from a technical standpoint to offer an air quality similar to in an operation room at the beginnig of the drive (source: I have experience in designing pharmaceutical plants). I imagine that some will never use public transport again.

Also entertainment during the journey will be important. For this purpose, each passenger will have his own dispay.

Special needs will be important. For example you will be able to book a childs seat with your drive, a hassle when renting a car today in my experience.

Versatility will be important. The seats can be laid flat down (by Optimus) to expand the cargo space.

Now lets focus to how the car will be produced. The battery needs only to be about 25 kWh. Tax credits or manufacturing credits don‘t really matter. Cheap LFP batteries will be imported from China if no domestic supply is available. AWD, high performance and high speed are no requirement for Robotaxi. Also the charge rate is of less importance. The system will allocate the cars and the requested drives and ensure that the available battery capacity is sufficient in 95 % of the drives (and could offer a discount if charging is needed during a particular trip). So I don‘t expect that Tesla will be battery constrained. I am confident that Elon will do what it takes to start production of Robotaxi as soon there is a regulatory approval in one city. I don‘t think the speed of the production ramp will be of particular importance since many other challenges need to be solved concurrent to offer a robotaxi service.

I think the production cost for Robotaxi will be much lower than 25‘000 USD in mass production. I think it will not be possible to buy one for at least some years. So the whole responsibility is at Tesla and with the data aquired during use Tesla can optimize their efforts. I hope this reduces the complaints of unhappy owners for example if the battery degrades too fast. Tesla will earn money for every drive and the offered rates could be similar to the existing rates of competitors (eg. Uber, Fedex, UPS, Public Transport).

I think the low cost car plan (model 2) was not scrapped. But who will really care about model 2 as soon as robotaxi is established in the market?

While I don‘t know which of my predictions will turn out to be true, I think this post shows the potential of Robotaxi.

There were many critical posts in the last days, written by a long standing, now disappointed forum member. I can understand that. However, we are never able to change what happened in the past and therefore we need to look ahead. So, lets do a simple napkin scenario analysis regarding FSD/Robotaxi (put in your own numbers and outcomes):
  • Worst Case Scenario: Tesla scraps all plans for Level 5 autonomy by End of 2025 => Let’s assume a shareprice of 100.
  • Best Case Scenario: Robotaxi service incl. Optimus support is introduced in the major cities in the US by End of 2025 with a clear path to fast expand the service to other areas => Let’s assume a shareprice of 600.
It is possible to do this regarding other topics, e.g. how high is the risk that Elon writes stuipd posts on X and how would the shareprice react.

So it seems that there is some potential to the upside regarding FSD/Robotaxi. We are investing because we are willing to take risks and because we are willing to support the mission. Investing, particularly investing in TSLA, is not easy.

Hold on your butts!
Great thoughts!

I bet RT first gig will be moving personnel around Giga Texas.
 
No way, rid of brakes? Still needed when regen unavailable, cold weather, low battery, first few miles driving after a respite...

You don't get rid of brakes completely but you get rid of quite a bit of brake weight.

Look at the crazy big brake rotor on a Model S Plaid and the crazy big calipers and the pads even. Now compare those to a Toyota Tercel or a Nissan Sentra or the like.

If you are designing the car for a track like the Nürburgring you need huge break pads, calipers, and rotors. High top speeds, high weight, high braking need.

Now design a car that will never see a racetrack, you can limit it's top speed to 90 mph or maybe even less and it is likely to have half the battery pack weight and a smaller overall body. You can not only reduce the size of the brake components but once you do you can use smaller wheels (again saving weight).

It's a totally different use case so it can absolutely get rid of brake weight. Just use smaller and lighter components. But you still end up with physical brakes.
 
In the not-too-distant future all vehicles will be able to communicate, making accidental collisions a thing of the past.
As noted above, a lot of the FSD interventions are because the the driver in the FSD car is worried about how other drivers will react.

And a lot of accidents are caused by a humans not signalling their intention correctly, not judging distances accurately, or making a sudden unexpected move without considering all consequences.

When FSD works well the human occupier will not even pay attention, they will be engaged in a book, work emails, a computer game, a conversation, or some other activity.

The is no reason why a Robotaxi would make a sudden unexpected move, or not signal its intention correctly.

There will ne a lot less aggression and anxiety, because no one is in a particular rush. The Robotaxi network should be able to provide a fairly accurate and conservative estimate of travel time,

No time is needed to park the car and walk from the car park, accidents in car parks are mostly eliminated.
 
Last edited:
Worst Case Scenario: Tesla scraps all plans for Level 5 autonomy by End of 2025 => Let’s assume a shareprice of 100.
Even if this worst case scenario plays out, there is no reason why other parts of the business would not progress:-
  • The compact 25K car.
  • Tesla Energy
  • Optimus
Tesla hasn't officially abandoned master plan 3, I will be very surprised should they ever do that.

If Tesla doesn't have Level 5 autonomy, I think it will be a long time before anyone else has it, and we have seen that Tesla and Elon do not give up easily..

The "unboxed' method of production will probably lower cost to the extent that it everyone copies it and it becomes the way all cars are made, perhaps with a few exceptions. That means the compact car should be competitive for a while, as copying can't be instantly done.
 
I'm not sure of anything at this point. The fact that Franz essentially gave a "wait and see" response isn't reassuring that there isn't at least some truth to the Reuters article. He could have easily said "yes, we are still planning to build the $25K consumer car", yet for some reason he did not.

I think anything is possible. We know we'll see the RT on 8/8, but whether or not we see the consumer version, or even if we'll get a confirmation that it's still being planned, well I'm not sure of any of it right now.

One thing I do know, FSD v12.3.3 is freaking impressive, and I'm dying to see how much v12.4 improves upon it. Tesla seems very confident in RT's today, more so than I've ever seen them before. That's extremely bullish no matter what happens to the consumer Gen3, IMHO.
Reuters chose to go with the most sensational narrative of the information leaked to them. They could have gone with the more conservative version that is more likely true, that RT might have been bumped up a peg and gen3 bumped down a peg on Tesla's priority list. Greed for clicks and sensationalism caused them to get it wrong. Don't forget this each and every time you read any article on Reuters.
 
You forgot a big one: BRAKES.

The Robotaxi won't have a need for 40 to 50 lbs, PER CORNER, of unsprung mass: heavy brake rotors, calipers, pads, and more. They'll instead need a very small parking brake, likely mounted inboard at the motor.

Software will simply upscale braking as needed to ensure excellent stopping performance, while also ensuring that there will be NO use case of a fully charged battery when the RT begins a trip at the top of a mountain.

Savings in the hundreds of dollars per RT, perhaps even up to the low-four figures when factory labor and maintenance savings are included:)
That's wrong. Not all events are planned.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EQC_ and scaesare
You don't get rid of brakes completely but you get rid of quite a bit of brake weight.

Look at the crazy big brake rotor on a Model S Plaid and the crazy big calipers and the pads even. Now compare those to a Toyota Tercel or a Nissan Sentra or the like.

If you are designing the car for a track like the Nürburgring you need huge break pads, calipers, and rotors. High top speeds, high weight, high braking need.

Now design a car that will never see a racetrack, you can limit it's top speed to 90 mph or maybe even less and it is likely to have half the battery pack weight and a smaller overall body. You can not only reduce the size of the brake components but once you do you can use smaller wheels (again saving weight).

It's a totally different use case so it can absolutely get rid of brake weight. Just use smaller and lighter components. But you still end up with physical brakes.
Drum brakes are possible. Several EVs doing this. No brakes is not happening. Moving the brakes from the wheels to motor is unnecessary cost. Its not a performance vehicle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: scaesare
Since this is officially, mod approved so to speak, a weekend FSD thread, I’ll add this.

While I haven’t tried it, I’d think that hitting “end trip” would stop FSD without registering a disengagement event. Also, not sure about newer S/X, but the older cars have not offered a prompt after a disengagement event, at least my refreshed 2016 S never did with V11 FSD.
I've been trying that. It doesn't matter. End trip ends the trip but doesn't stop FSD. Any move to stop FSD (brake pedal, steering wheel, up-shift on the shift lever) results in that, "What did FSD do wrong?" prompt.
 
Drum brakes are possible. Several EVs doing this. No brakes is not happening. Moving the brakes from the wheels to motor is unnecessary cost. Its not a performance vehicle.

I don't see them doing robotaxis with drum brakes, it requires more maintenance per mile (the assuming being robotaxis will do hundreds of thousands if not millions of miles).

I don't see any point in talking about literally no physical brakes, I just joined in to mention that the majority of the brake weight could be eliminated due to the difference in use case and vehicle design.
 
Cybertruck sold out for this year: Orders now show delivery dates next year rather than 2024. Posted by greggertruck on X.

I wonder if that means all will be Foundation Series this year.

We’ve a hit on our hands! Way to go Tesla! We love you Elon and everyone at Tesla! 👏🏻
Would still be curious on daily production. Curious how the ramp is going.