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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Doggydogworld
Active Member
Fossil externalities are the issue.
In the west fossil receives very little in actual subsidies. In the US, for example, subsidies are in the 15-20b/year range while taxes are >10x that. And that 15-20b includes coal and NG, used to generate electricity for EVs. It also includes stuff like depletion which also applies to mining for battery materials.
And a big reason why that this compensation package vote is turning into a vote of no confidence.
The Accountant
Active Member
We just heard that 90% of retail shareholders who have voted thus far voted yes for both the comp plan and Texas move.
This very useful post points out a very basic principle that "sunk costs" should never be the basis for negating an otherwise good decision. Decades ago something like this was called 'zero based budgeting'. That concept was polluted quickly by counting depreciation. However, if the project was never implemented, but completed revised prior to deployment there would be no depreciation, just R&D expense.
These issues have never impeded the most innovative companies, and never impeded anything Elon has led simply because the development process is defined as iterative. So long as a software version can remain, for example, Beta, the accounting impediment never interferes.
Elon has, in common with few public company leaders, an acute understanding of Free Cash Flow as a superior metric, in part because that eliminates the decision paralysis caused by capitalized asset fixation and partly because a company with positive Free Cash Flow does not typically need bankruptcy as a 'solution'.
cliff harris
Member
Free markets require a pricing system for externalities. In this case, Climate change from vehicle emissions. You cannot have a free market where one product destroys the environment and another does not. Even super hard core capitalists accept that externalities need a pricing mechanism, which requires govt legislation or taxes/subsidies to account for them correctly.
OK? So. That doesnt mean that people voting against him arent using the voting as a vote of no confidence. What else do they have? It is a unique opportunity.
Tell me you don't know why the original grant rescinded without telling me...
Waiting4M3
Active Member
one shouldn't reneg on a past deal
if one wants to protest, it can be done on a future deal, and protest the process by which the past deal was done, i.e. not giving Kimbal Musk and James Murdoch another term
(I personally voted for them, but wouldn't have any problem with people not voting for them)
if one wants to protest, it can be done on a future deal, and protest the process by which the past deal was done, i.e. not giving Kimbal Musk and James Murdoch another term
(I personally voted for them, but wouldn't have any problem with people not voting for them)
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^ cool blog post on electrifying the entire home and the gaps in the market in order to do so
FielderJones
Member
The Accountant
Active Member
From what I understand (and have seen), a company called Broadridge handles the proxy voting process for most companies and they can provide real-time results to the company during the proxy voting period.
Why was it a terrible compensation plan? Everyone was laughing at how impossible it was, and yet most of the milestones got hit and a lot of folks on this board got very wealthy on the back of that. Granted Musk took some of that wealth back with his antics, but if you look at the actual Tesla achievements during that time they were amazing
Was he assisted by Covid and short squeezes, FOMO, etc.? Yes, but that's not relevant IMO. Tough goals were set. Tough goals were met.
UkNorthampton
TSLA - 12+ startups in 1
Yes and Amy & Charlie Munger's old law firm is now part of it.
Judge seems to be running scared. Originally didn't want to include the 1000+ letters. Then I think (my memory might be faulty), they filtered them for evidence of owning shares at the time. These letters are part of the court records now.
Amy's law firm might be putting in an argument that the total fees should be capped at a level if a few million. I posted a youtube video of this the other day (Herbert / Alexandra Merz etc).
After fees agreed, Tesla can then appeal about the whole case in Delaware. If the fee award is too outrageous, they mentioned that that could lead to Superior Court (USA or Delaware, I don't know).
Not my country, not my law system, just going by what Alexander and Richard the lawyer said on the video.
Also, on that or another video, pressure on index & other funds that vote against Tesla board recommendations. name & shame with those who are interseted in Tesla vote but might hold or want to hold funds encouraged to swap out or more likely only buy Tesla Board/Elon-friendly funds.
This isn't an idle threat - dozens of UK & other non-USA brokers changed their policies to allow Tesla voting when they explicitly did not allow it before.
Many ONLY allow voting on shares from their own country and Tesla, no-one else - not even other European shares.
Three of my UK brokers changed the rules just for this vote, under enormous pressure.
I'm only aware of one UK broker that continued to refuse and even then someone found a way around that could then be applied to many brokers across Europe, perhaps further afield. This was Hargreaves Lansdown - very big player who were getting a lot of grief.
Unprecedented - and this could apply to funds that don't follow Tesla Board recommendations.
Amy @_SFTahoe
I have retained counsel to appear in the Delaware Court of Chancery to challenge the plaintiff’s fee request in Tornetta v Musk et al. I voted for the CEO Performance award in 2018, and voted for the ratification now. While I’m active in the case, I’ll refrain from commenting here. #tesla
9:54 PM · Jun 5, 2024 725K Views
I have retained counsel to appear in the Delaware Court of Chancery to challenge the plaintiff’s fee request in Tornetta v Musk et al. I voted for the CEO Performance award in 2018, and voted for the ratification now. While I’m active in the case, I’ll refrain from commenting here. #tesla
9:54 PM · Jun 5, 2024 725K Views
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FielderJones
Member
Thanks. My Google-fu is weak trying to find the answer to this.
UkNorthampton
TSLA - 12+ startups in 1
"Plan to throw one (implementation) away; you will, anyhow." - Fred Brooks - decades ago.
UkNorthampton
TSLA - 12+ startups in 1
Character / usefulness / Tesla discussion at 4:44
I expect this post might lose people, apologies if it does or it's considered off-topic.
I'm not much of a gamer by the way.
A five hour stream of a world class gamer (claims top 20 in world by game/character class, previously better at older games going back to 1990s - obviously younger then, but also perhaps work and family responsibilities were less).
Purpose of the stream is to
1) Test Starlink - low latency, similar to cable connection
2) Test streaming to a social media site
3) Recreation - main freetime joys are gaming and family time
I scanned it - but didn't watch the whole thing
Some discussion of Tesla at 4 hours 44 minutes
Lots of discussion of SpaceX and Starlink towards the start
Mention of playing with older children as part of bonding
Why post this?
If you can avoid your first reaction, prior prejudices, count to ten before making a snap judgement, just consider what kind of person we are dealing with. Numerous accomplishments, incredibly rare and (in my opinion) we're lucky to have him.
Part of the decision on Elon's pay is based on people's consideration of Elon's usefulness to Tesla and also judgement on his character.
I expect this post might lose people, apologies if it does or it's considered off-topic.
I'm not much of a gamer by the way.
A five hour stream of a world class gamer (claims top 20 in world by game/character class, previously better at older games going back to 1990s - obviously younger then, but also perhaps work and family responsibilities were less).
Purpose of the stream is to
1) Test Starlink - low latency, similar to cable connection
2) Test streaming to a social media site
3) Recreation - main freetime joys are gaming and family time
I scanned it - but didn't watch the whole thing
Some discussion of Tesla at 4 hours 44 minutes
Lots of discussion of SpaceX and Starlink towards the start
Mention of playing with older children as part of bonding
Why post this?
If you can avoid your first reaction, prior prejudices, count to ten before making a snap judgement, just consider what kind of person we are dealing with. Numerous accomplishments, incredibly rare and (in my opinion) we're lucky to have him.
Part of the decision on Elon's pay is based on people's consideration of Elon's usefulness to Tesla and also judgement on his character.
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Exactly.
Not everyone has access to reasonable debate about this vote, and I can totally understand someone who invested after 2020 wanting to stick it to Elon for the last 2 years. See KoGuan Leo...
I very much understand their sentiment, and as it has always been everywhere, everytime, people tend to vote with their "stomach" and not their brain.
(but for the first time I paid 80€ to vote yes to the comp plan and Texas (voted no to Kimbal and James), and along the board recommendations for the others).
I’m thinking it’s looking very close or to the negative for the vote. Just saw a YouTube commercial with Robyn and the Tesla post.
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