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Tesla Unionization
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
EVNow
Well-Known Member
You mean like the first new automanufactirer in 80 years to succeed?
Pensionsjättens hot: Då dumpar vi Tesla
Danska pensionsbolag ger upp och dumpar Teslaaktier. Svenska AMF tror att det går att påverka Elon Musks elbilsjätte och behåller innehaven – än så länge. Men:”Tesla ligger precis på gränsen för att vara investeringsbart”, säger Tomas Flodén, kapitalförvaltningschef för AMF:s totala...
www.di.se
The pension giant's threat: Then we dump Tesla
Danish pension companies give up and dump Tesla shares. The Swedish AMF believes that it is possible to influence Elon Musk's electric car giant and keeps the holdings - for now.But:
"Tesla is right on the edge of being investable," says Tomas Flodén, head of asset management for AMF's total equity management and CEO of AMF Fonder, to Di.
Facktoppen vill ha global kamp mot Tesla
IF Metalls strejk mot Tesla har pågått i sex veckor och positionerna är helt låsta. Teslas rättsliga processer för att hindra sympatiåtgärder har nu åkt på ännu ett bakslag.Samtidigt får facken stöd från alla nordiska grannar.”Jag hoppas att det sprider sig till en kamp mot Tesla i hela...
www.di.se
The trade union wants a global fight against Tesla
IF Metall's strike against Tesla has lasted for six weeks and the positions are completely locked. Tesla's legal processes to prevent sympathy measures have now suffered another setback .At the same time, the unions receive support from all Nordic neighbours.
"I hope it spreads to a fight against Tesla all over the world," says Transport chairman Tommy Wreeth.
IG Metall has been awfully quiet as of recent. Hmmmm
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So hypothetically speaking, AMF can show that having a union would make Tesla a more profitable investment?
Krugerrand
Meow
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
If you read Isaacson’s biography on Elon, he is wired to be in a “warlike” mentality.
Can’t wait to see how he handles this. Might be a GFY moment and I can’t wait.
Can’t wait to see how he handles this. Might be a GFY moment and I can’t wait.
Generally speaking, I am happy to be living in Sweden and think it is a society based on values I appreciate, with some exceptions. But we have a strong heritage of being a de facto one party state for about 50 years, when the Social Democratic Party won all elections and party officials held almost all important positions in society. The party is very much intertwined with the unions and this has made unions very powerful. From a US perspective, this probably sounds a bit worse than it has been. Unions and large corporations have cooperated well and many large Swedish companies have actually preferred having collective barganing agreements, since it has in practice facilitated needed large layoffs and similar situations.
But power corrupts and the old power structures do not like to be challenged. Both the Unions and the Employers confederations have a lot of well paid officials that benefit from the current system. Pensions from companies subject to collective agreements are directed to pension funds owned by - you guessed it - the unions and employer confederations. The management and boards of those pension funds are not surprisingly often full of ex or current Unions officials etc.
Another aspect of the old Sweden is that we were a very homogenous society with an exceptional large trust in the government. Only Finland and Switzerland beats us in this: Trust in Government by Country 2023 So if the politicians tell us that we have the best system in the world, most people believe that to be true. In this specific context, there is a well spread belief that the so called "Swedish model" with strong unions, employer confederations and collective agreements is the best way of organizing the labor market. You will find exceptions to this among high tech companies and companies with the highest salaries, like professional and financial services firms, that compete for the most well paid employees and where employees are often part of a global market. It seems to me that Tesla sees itself as a high tech company and wishes to belong to that group, while employing a lot of rather traditional blue collar workers that in Sweden are almost always subject to collective agreements.
This just to give a bit more color to this for non Swedes. More concretely, the pension Fund AMF that threatens to sell its Tesla shares is half owned by LO, the parent organisation of IF Metall, the union which is fighting Tesla (in my opinion because it fears losing its power in Sweden if more companies that are traditionally unionised would follow Tesla's example).
But power corrupts and the old power structures do not like to be challenged. Both the Unions and the Employers confederations have a lot of well paid officials that benefit from the current system. Pensions from companies subject to collective agreements are directed to pension funds owned by - you guessed it - the unions and employer confederations. The management and boards of those pension funds are not surprisingly often full of ex or current Unions officials etc.
Another aspect of the old Sweden is that we were a very homogenous society with an exceptional large trust in the government. Only Finland and Switzerland beats us in this: Trust in Government by Country 2023 So if the politicians tell us that we have the best system in the world, most people believe that to be true. In this specific context, there is a well spread belief that the so called "Swedish model" with strong unions, employer confederations and collective agreements is the best way of organizing the labor market. You will find exceptions to this among high tech companies and companies with the highest salaries, like professional and financial services firms, that compete for the most well paid employees and where employees are often part of a global market. It seems to me that Tesla sees itself as a high tech company and wishes to belong to that group, while employing a lot of rather traditional blue collar workers that in Sweden are almost always subject to collective agreements.
This just to give a bit more color to this for non Swedes. More concretely, the pension Fund AMF that threatens to sell its Tesla shares is half owned by LO, the parent organisation of IF Metall, the union which is fighting Tesla (in my opinion because it fears losing its power in Sweden if more companies that are traditionally unionised would follow Tesla's example).
Yep I agree. IF Metall's purpose here seems to be self preservation of their power, NOT worker concerns or safety. Their actions and eagerness to attack
Tesla on a world scale (for less than a dozen union members!!!) scream selfish desperation in my opinion, and they seem willing to escalate it as far as they possibly can rather than back down now, because doing so would only serve to increase the chances of the very thing they fear the most: making the union look weak.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
What existing union is not EV friendly?
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Any organization whose actions result in stifled growth and innovation would not be considered friendly to the transition to EVs. Unions create an adversarial atmosphere between employee and employer which can be counter-productive and takes away from a unified focus on development.
In Sweden specifically, the union-centric auto companies have either gone bankrupt or the brand has been purchased by the Chinese. Since that ownership transition, Geely has been able to develop some compelling EVs wearing the Volvo and Polestar marques.
In the US, the automakers with strong union representation have not achieved milestones in regard to innovation, though, fortunately, the union membership has been falling off for years, presumably due to the malfeasance of the union management. This, plus the fact that overall working conditions have improved over time thanks to increased safety training, bolstered by OSHA standards and oversight that play into the idea that the union is no longer as necessary a factor to secure employee rights and conditions.
Oh, and will you @SwedishAdvocate ever make any attempt to answer the questions which have been put to you that would help determine whether this current fiasco involving actions twarting EV deployment across several nations is being done for about a dozen Tesla employees' rights, or, is it a last ditch effort of grandstanding in an attempt for IF Metall to maintain an appearance of relevance?
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Gotta wonder what the last ten pages of discussion was about at this point. I will try not to comment further but it is just so tempting.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
I may have found which union might be in the pole position for the most EV unfriendly...
www.teslarati.com
...not to mention the harm the workers at this factory in Norway will experience from the strike if Tesla is forced to find another supplier to replace the striking company with one where union interference does not hamper the acceleration of the transition to EVs.
What multiple of Tesla's dozen striking union positions is IF Metall willing to sacrifice elsewhere in this sympathetic strike against Tesla?
How will this be justified to those who lose their jobs permanently due to friendly fire in this union version of warfare?
Please accept my apologies, @SwedishAdvocate , for posing additional questions you will find uncomfortable to answer.
Tesla Giga Berlin supplier permitted to reduce workers over union strike: report
When IF Metall targeted Giga Berlin, the union noted that Hydro Extrusions would be a key player in its strategy to disrupt the Tesla plant.
www.teslarati.com
...not to mention the harm the workers at this factory in Norway will experience from the strike if Tesla is forced to find another supplier to replace the striking company with one where union interference does not hamper the acceleration of the transition to EVs.
What multiple of Tesla's dozen striking union positions is IF Metall willing to sacrifice elsewhere in this sympathetic strike against Tesla?
How will this be justified to those who lose their jobs permanently due to friendly fire in this union version of warfare?
Please accept my apologies, @SwedishAdvocate , for posing additional questions you will find uncomfortable to answer.
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
Ideological ?
People have been brainwashed into thinking unions are the enemy and tax cuts for billionaires is for universal good.
Please read the last few pages. Many people here are from Nordic countries where over 70% of people are in unions. If anything we are brainwashed the opposite direction you are describing.
Krugerrand
Meow
Hmmm…but the ‘world’ doesn’t all have collective agreements nor require them. It’s a completely out of order thing to say, and it’s a statement that reflects a ‘personal emotional’ issue with Elon/Tesla. Personal emotions should be irrelevant and non-starters for this person, in his role. The fact they aren’t and that he has a goal beyond his station and the issue at hand is quite interesting. This man cannot be trusted to do his job in this matter because he’s emotional and has a vendetta he wants to fulfill. If I was his boss, and somebody is, I’d have fired him immediately for speaking out of turn like that publicly.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Please, read through the above discussion and do your best to offer answers to questions made in order to better understand the IF Metall actions, goals, and strategy for achieving them.
So far, none of those "contributors" consistently beating the drum for IF Metall have made an attempt to offer explanation for these straight-forward queries.
Then, with that out of the way, we may talk openly about who is brainwashed and who isn't.
This may help some in understanding some of the complexities of Tesla vs IF Metall.
Trade unions must understand that collective agreements do not suit all companies and respect that a no is a no, writes Företagarna's labor law expert Lise-Lotte Argulander.
The battle that is now going on between IF Metall and Tesla is absurd. IF Metall uses its right to take industrial action according to Swedish law, but why? Is it because Tesla has such bad terms and benefits or is it just a power play? So far, only a small percentage of Tesla workers appear to be on strike. Despite the fact that there are pickets outside their workplace in yellow vests.
Here in Sweden in 2023, the unions can play mafia to impose collective agreements on companies that they do not want. Take sympathetic measures to stop mail delivery and block loading. It is unreasonable and harmful that other companies that are bound by collective agreements and are under a duty of peace are forced into this battle. And not only companies, innocent private individuals are also in trouble now that the painters union refuses to paint Tesla cars.
When you are in the middle of the battle, it can sometimes appear that the opposite of collective bargaining is slavery and anarchy. What does it actually look like? Six out of ten small companies choose not to sign a collective agreement. We have legislation that places certain requirements on employers in the form of, among other things, the Working Hours Act, the Holiday Act, the Sick Pay Act and, not least, the Work Environment Act. The only significant thing that is not governed by law is the wage level, but there is a practice that an employer must pay a fair wage and that an employee can challenge it in court if this is not the case.
Not according to Swedish legislation. Other countries often have a principle of proportionality and prohibition of unreasonable sympathy measures to create more equal conditions in the labor market. Not us, despite the fact that all bourgeois parties announced in 2017 that they wanted to limit the right to strike and the right to resort to sympathetic measures. Why is it so quiet now at the government? We must be able to agree on some kind of limitation on sympathy measures. In Sweden, we have the Swedish model where the company in practice stands no chance if the union has made up its mind. Other agreements signed under threat have every right to be annulled. But when the unions threaten to reach an agreement, that's perfectly fine.
Freedom of contract is important. Trade unions need to understand that a no is a no and that voluntariness is the basis for a good dialogue and an agreement that both parties want. Collective agreements are often good, but they do not suit all companies. Respect it.
Ett nej är ett nej – även när det gäller kollektivavtal
Fackpampar måste förstå att kollektivavtal inte passar alla företag och respektera att ett nej är...
www.foretagarna.se
A no is a no - even when it comes to collective agreements
Published Nov 16, 2023Trade unions must understand that collective agreements do not suit all companies and respect that a no is a no, writes Företagarna's labor law expert Lise-Lotte Argulander.
The battle that is now going on between IF Metall and Tesla is absurd. IF Metall uses its right to take industrial action according to Swedish law, but why? Is it because Tesla has such bad terms and benefits or is it just a power play? So far, only a small percentage of Tesla workers appear to be on strike. Despite the fact that there are pickets outside their workplace in yellow vests.
Here in Sweden in 2023, the unions can play mafia to impose collective agreements on companies that they do not want. Take sympathetic measures to stop mail delivery and block loading. It is unreasonable and harmful that other companies that are bound by collective agreements and are under a duty of peace are forced into this battle. And not only companies, innocent private individuals are also in trouble now that the painters union refuses to paint Tesla cars.
The union's threat affects those who are small
I'm not here to defend Tesla; I have no insight into their terms or benefits. Tesla is a giant company owned by the world's richest man and Sweden is a minimal market for them. They can hold out, or for that matter leave the country, without major financial losses. A flooring company in Västervik or an advertising agency in Sveg do not have that opportunity, which are blackmailed in the same way. The smaller a company is, the more likely it is that they will not be able to withstand the threat of unions.When you are in the middle of the battle, it can sometimes appear that the opposite of collective bargaining is slavery and anarchy. What does it actually look like? Six out of ten small companies choose not to sign a collective agreement. We have legislation that places certain requirements on employers in the form of, among other things, the Working Hours Act, the Holiday Act, the Sick Pay Act and, not least, the Work Environment Act. The only significant thing that is not governed by law is the wage level, but there is a practice that an employer must pay a fair wage and that an employee can challenge it in court if this is not the case.
Unreasonable sympathy measures
If the employer has equal or better benefits and conditions, significantly higher pay than the minimum wage in the collective agreement and has signed the insurances and pension agreements that they and their employees are satisfied with, shouldn't that be enough?Not according to Swedish legislation. Other countries often have a principle of proportionality and prohibition of unreasonable sympathy measures to create more equal conditions in the labor market. Not us, despite the fact that all bourgeois parties announced in 2017 that they wanted to limit the right to strike and the right to resort to sympathetic measures. Why is it so quiet now at the government? We must be able to agree on some kind of limitation on sympathy measures. In Sweden, we have the Swedish model where the company in practice stands no chance if the union has made up its mind. Other agreements signed under threat have every right to be annulled. But when the unions threaten to reach an agreement, that's perfectly fine.
Freedom of contract is important. Trade unions need to understand that a no is a no and that voluntariness is the basis for a good dialogue and an agreement that both parties want. Collective agreements are often good, but they do not suit all companies. Respect it.
Krugerrand
Meow
Thank you! That is the most helpful post on background information offered by anyone. Very much appreciated.
Krugerrand
Meow
Wow, how long have you had that pickle stuck up your butt? Give it a rest. And take your Elon and Tesla hate somewhere else. We’re not looking to have this thread closed too.
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