Tesla Vision

[Js1977]

So they come here to vent their frustrations.

Most sensible people do it privately

On a serious not, I think its fine to vent your frustrations as the kettle boils per say but some people people just seem to boil the kettle all the time and it becomes frustrating for some of us.... and then its a vicious circle.

If you cant be happy, be contempt and if neither just move on. This is not healthy.

 

[spdpsba]

should have stuck to your guns on that promise.

The promise was done to only @Pants not the whole thread. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your views I am still responding to you

 

[spdpsba]

just move on.

May be they are on Autopilot, so just stuck… I’ll get my coat.

 

[Js1977]

Im going to reset this a little bit and say Tesla vision is not great but this is not based on having it.. Just based on what I can see on my screen when the cameras are dirty.

I might/would still buy this seemingly (to me) rubbish system at present since it doesn't tip the balance for I want (same goes to the forthcoming lack of stalks)

Bottom line for me is that other makes are going to at least make equal or close enough on what tesla does best for these negatives to matter (to me)

 

[Leytonstone]

Sorry to disappoint you I’ve never had any problems with my car, so I don’t look for evidence to prove or disprove like you.

It's not your own experience with your own car that's in question. It's this para tucked away in the manual:

Would you not agree this is a long list of common situations that would never leave a human driver "unable to function"?

 

[Durzel]

Worth remembering also that these are significant expenditures for most people. It's not trivial to just jump to another brand and often it will involve taking a considerable financial hit. If we were talking about the shortfalls of a toaster, or even a TV or computer, then criticism might be more transient because the seriously aggreived would just buy a different make one and disappear from forums like this.

Also the notion that people on here, regular Tesla customers, are guilty of pushing a narrative disingenuously is kinda insulting. All this "false flag" garbage is just "us vs them" polarising language used in place of an actual cogent argument.

As for Musk, I struggle to understand how anyone can look up to him given his behaviour the past year, and especially most recently. it's not "refreshing" for a CEO (or any human with unimaginable power) to be acting this way.

 

[Jason71]

It's not your own experience with your own car that's in question. It's this para tucked away in the manual:

View attachment 991450

Would you not agree this is a long list of common situations that would never leave a human driver "unable to function"?

I dunno.
If I wrapped or painted you I think you might struggle.

 

[Leytonstone]

If I wrapped or painted you I think you might struggle.

If you coated my eyes with a layer of wet road grime I'd have the same trouble.

But here's the thing... that never happens.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

With my Mod hat on, don't let this get personal

With my "member of the forum with a right to have an opinion" hat on.. (I know, some think I shouldn't be allowed to) . many of the constructive critisisms are rebutted and we then get a long debate where the two sides simply restate the same arguments, sometimes embellishing the arguments to try and reinforce their point.

I don't know what some people feel constitutes a constructive criticism, its a fair point not that I believe there are many wild and unfounded complaints, but equally I would personally like to see a coherent counter to those complaints.

Lets take one item.. performance of parking aids using TV - somebiody care to offer a robust defence of Tesla other than from people who don't even have a car using Tesla Vision for parking sensors saying "I've never experienced it" because frankly, you wouldn't because you have parking sensors. And lets also not hide behind "the manual says it might be rubbish"

 

[Dilly]

I can only assume that Teslavision implementation has come from the unknowing and single minded top.

Somewhere, there is a team trying their best to code the cameras in the vain hope that the impossible is possible.

Only recently, the squiggly proximity warnings disappeared in the 2023.32 branch and then reappeared in the 2023.38 branch. Presumably whatever was being tested didn’t work out.

Teslavision didn’t become a reality in the summer and with the coming winter‘s misted pillar cameras, wheel arch cameras blinded by the indicators in the dark and the endlessly dirty rear camera, there isn’t a hope in hell of success.

Even smart cruise is degraded with the loss of radar though there are less conflicts without It.

Without hardware upgrade, Teslavision is a lost cause. Better for Tesla they realise it sooner rather than later.

The time must come when owners, Government bodies and courts say enough is enough. That’s when I’ll be glad I’m not a shareholder…

I’m glad my car has USS and I‘d be happy to have the opportunity to use FSD beta as it stands.

 

[GRiLLA]

This is all immaterial, we don't have laws that allow a higher degree of self driving in the UK yet, and Tesla do have far greater capability than we are allowed to use. Although self driving was mention in the Kings speech for this next year, it would seem likely to be dropped while they focus on gesture policies to support the election campaign.

Yes I would like that Tesla decided to stop expecting something to change and put some effort into improving the capabilities they already have, or even to finish features they promised to Tesla Vision EAP owners, but they've always been very clear that their new mission was all going to be around self0driving, not driver assistance features.

The only different feature that other manufacturers are showing is hands-off using eye tracking, and TBH that looks to be more irritating than what we've got.

Go be mad at our ability limited government rather than Tesla.

 

[Leytonstone]

Lets take one item.. performance of parking aids using TV

Maybe gen z's favourite aphorism 'learn to code' will become 'learn to park'

 

[spdpsba]

Go be mad at our ability limited government rather than Tesla.

Very sensible take.

 

[Jason71]

Go be mad at our ability limited government rather than Tesla.

Pretty sure the govt havent outlawed parking sensors though.

 

[Leytonstone]

This is all immaterial, we don't have laws that allow a higher degree of self driving in the UK yet, and Tesla do have far greater capability than we are allowed to use.

There are no laws limiting the behaviour of auto wipers or parking and yet both are underperforming junk.

For many owners, these two systems form the hallowed gateway to a whole new realm of Tesla consciousness. If you could explain what's going on without blaming the government or Costa Coffee it would be thought-provoking to say the least.

 

[GRiLLA]

There are no laws limiting the behaviour of auto wipers or parking and yet both are underperforming junk.

For many owners, auto wipers and parking form the hallowed gateway to a whole new realm of Tesla consciousness. If you could explain what's going on without blaming the government or Costa Coffee it would be thought-provoking to say the least.

I'll refer you to what I actually said if you can read as far as a second paragraph

Yes I would like that Tesla decided to stop expecting something to change and put some effort into improving the capabilities they already have, or even to finish features they promised to Tesla Vision EAP owners, but they've always been very clear that their new mission was all going to be around self-driving, not driver assistance features.

 

[spdpsba]

For many owners,

It should be, For many forum members … Pedantic … not really I don’t measure the milli second delay of my autowipers or AH!

 

[Dilly]

I can only assume that Teslavision implementation has come from the unknowing and single minded top.

Somewhere, there is a team trying their best to code the cameras in the vain hope that the impossible is possible.

Only recently, the squiggly proximity warnings disappeared in the 2023.32 branch and then reappeared in the 2023.38 branch. Presumably whatever was being tested didn’t work out.

Teslavision didn’t become a reality in the summer and with the coming winter‘s misted pillar cameras, wheel arch cameras blinded by the indicators in the dark and the endlessly dirty rear camera, there isn’t a hope in hell of success.

Even smart cruise is degraded with the loss of radar though there are less conflicts without It.

Without hardware upgrade, Teslavision is a lost cause. Better for Tesla they realise it sooner rather than later.

The time must come when owners, Government bodies and courts say enough is enough. That’s when I’ll be glad I’m not a shareholder…

I’m glad my car has USS and I‘d be happy to have the opportunity to use FSD beta as it stands.

I’d be absolutely delighted to proved wrong. Right now, I couldn’t trade my car for a new one with my existing features as they are still ‘upcoming” after a year of ‘Work in progress’

 

[Durzel]

This is all immaterial, we don't have laws that allow a higher degree of self driving in the UK yet, and Tesla do have far greater capability than we are allowed to use. Although self driving was mention in the Kings speech for this next year, it would seem likely to be dropped while they focus on gesture policies to support the election campaign.

Yes I would like that Tesla decided to stop expecting something to change and put some effort into improving the capabilities they already have, or even to finish features they promised to Tesla Vision EAP owners, but they've always been very clear that their new mission was all going to be around self0driving, not driver assistance features.

The only different feature that other manufacturers are showing is hands-off using eye tracking, and TBH that looks to be more irritating than what we've got.

Go be mad at our ability limited government rather than Tesla.

There is, as I understand it, room for Tesla to comply with UNECE revisions that would augment AP as we know it. As has been mentioned before Mercedes have L3 called "Drive Pilot" under limited conditions in Germany, and will presumably bring this out in the UK in due course. Ford have "BlueCruise" which is approved over here for hands-free driving. Hyundai and Kia (and possibly others) have fully remote summoning and self-parking with dead man switch remotes.

All of that is to say that Tesla could do parallel development of self-drive software in Europe to fall within UNECE as it is and as it relaxes, but choose not to. Their attitude is that FSD Beta is their singular focus and it will be released essentially "as is" in other markets as and when they open up to the extent that it is permissable, or never - if they don't. In the case of Europe, that is most likely several years away. This US-centric attitude permeates everything - e.g. matrix lights that do sod all in Europe despite being legal here for many years.

Tesla's focus would be fine if they weren't selling EAP/FSD in Europe, at full price, knowing full well that self-driving even to the degree experienced by US owners using FSD Beta is either never likely to happen in the practical lifetime of the car. They're selling a dream to customers with less info than they have when they know it won't be a reality except for the very few owners who are prepared to run their cars into the ground. With finance being the predominant means of acquisition, I'd venture this is not typical.

This is all aside from the sensors they've removed and are unable to reach parity with much less improve upon with cameras & AI.

 

[GRiLLA]

There is, as I understand it, room for Tesla to comply with UNECE revisions that would augment AP as we know it. As has been mentioned before Mercedes have L3 called "Drive Pilot" under limited conditions in Germany, and will presumably bring this out in the UK in due course. Ford have "BlueCruise" which is approved over here for hands-free driving. Hyundai and Kia (and possibly others) have fully remote summoning and self-parking with dead man switch remotes.

All of that is to say that Tesla could do parallel development of self-drive software in Europe to fall within UNECE as it is and as it relaxes, but choose not to. Their attitude is that FSD Beta is their singular focus and it will be released essentially "as is" in other markets as and when they open up to the extent that it is permissable, or never - if they don't. In the case of Europe, that is most likely several years away. This US-centric attitude permeates everything - e.g. matrix lights that do sod all in Europe despite being legal here for many years.

Tesla's focus would be fine if they weren't selling EAP/FSD in Europe, at full price, knowing full well that self-driving even to the degree experienced by US owners using FSD Beta is either never likely to happen in the practical lifetime of the car. They're selling a dream to customers with less info than they have when they know it won't be a reality except for the very few owners who are prepared to run their cars into the ground. With finance being the predominant means of acquisition, I'd venture this is not typical.

This is all aside from the sensors they've removed and are unable to reach parity with much less improve upon with cameras & AI.

Sorry, no you are wrong in your premise.

Drive Pilot maybe allowed in Germany, not the UK. We have our own laws now and although UNECE has a set of regulations that Drive Pilot fits into it has not been approved in the UK, our laws would require it to be added to a list approved by the Secretary of State for Transport, but they won't because they don't have a testing regime in the UK for this yet.

Blue Cruise is no different to what we have in Tesla now, it just replaces the need to touch the wheel to indicate presence with a camera that is monitoring you. This is not a more advanced technology, Tesla even has it by some reports, and I certainly imagine it's more irritating than what we have.

Do you want Tesla to have a key in order to extend the range of summon? The issue is that UNECE allows these features if the driver is within a specific range, that's not possible to measure accurately enough with Bluetooth connections to mobile phones or bluetooth keys, so Tesla have to err on the side of caution. Interestingly this is likely to be something that the Highland Model 3 might change as we know it has the UWB hardware that allows a much more accurate ranging if the phone also has UWB.

As your premise is wrong, the rest is redundant.