TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Tesla will soon introduce new Autopilot safety restrictions after recent accidents

Discussion in 'Autonomous Vehicles' started by Tam, Aug 28, 2016.

  1. Tam

    Tam Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,048
    Location:
    Visalia, CA
    Tesla will soon introduce new Autopilot safety restrictions after recent accidents

    "According to sources familiar with the Autopilot program, Tesla will add a safety restriction that will result in not only the Autopilot disengaging after alerts are repeatedly ignored, but also blocking the driver from re-engaging the feature after it was automatically disengaged. The driver will not be able to reactivate the Autopilot until the car is stopped and put in ‘Park’."

    Supposedly, this restriction is a result of learning from Pennsylvania Turnpike and Montana accidents who ignored the alerts. I am not sure how much that would help because those owners crashed and there was no way that they could re-engage their Autopilot for their un-drivable cars any how.
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Helpful x 1
  2. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    Knoxville, Tennessee
    I think the concept is they drove hundreds of miles before crashing. Spending much time on larger roads, then moving to a smaller road that AP couldn't handle as well. With the new cutoff, as you move to less safe roads it'll give up sooner and won't be on in the back road situation well off the beaten path.
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Informative x 1
  3. HookBill

    HookBill Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    409
    Location:
    The OC, CA
    A couple of thoughts: (1) it sounds to me after reading this that 8.0 might be closer than we think, and (2) there will be a few 'high profile ' posters who will definitely have a few words to say about this issue.
     
    • Like x 1
  4. RubberToe

    RubberToe Supporting the greater good

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    843
    Location:
    Pasadena, Ca
    I wonder how Electrek found out this was going to be in V8.0 software, and soon to boot? :rolleyes:

    Scratch the "soon" part, it just says upcoming.
     
  5. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    Knoxville, Tennessee
    oh come on, lets page a few :)

    @wk057
    @green1

    anybody else?
     
    • Funny x 3
  6. davidc18

    davidc18 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    811
    Location:
    So. FL
    Will not update to 8.0 if this turns out to be the case. I regret updating to 7.1
     
    • Like x 1
  7. RubberToe

    RubberToe Supporting the greater good

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    843
    Location:
    Pasadena, Ca
    Don't poke the Tiger !

    I'll bet wk has already seen the code, and preemptively excised it out of his upcoming V8 install.
     
    • Funny x 2
  8. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    Knoxville, Tennessee
    or maybe they left a disable nag flag in the code just for him :)

    I could see it going many ways for wk057

    * He never saw the nag before and won't see it in 8 so he doesn't care
    * He only saw the nag when testing the edge cases and is willing to avoid those
    * He saw the nag and disabled it and can disable it in the future
    * He doesn't want to fool with it and will stay on 7.x as long as possible
    * He loves 8.x so much after trying it on someone elses car he puts up with this minor limitation

    Who knows how that will go. Plenty of options.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    Knoxville, Tennessee
    Why? All you have to do is barely nudge the wheel and it won't disable. How is that any worse for you than 7.x?
     
  10. trils0n

    trils0n 2013 P85

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,295
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Do people really let their cars escalate alerts until autopilot disables itself just to avoid resting a hand on the wheel? This seems like a "restriction" that would have almost zero impact (except for people who refuse to respond to the alerts/instructions).
     
    • Like x 6
  11. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,016
    Location:
    San Jose, California
    The bolding part is mine. The rest seems reasonable to me. I think I have an ambiguity logic understanding error here. Does the block apply only to disengagement due to ignoring alerts, or does it also apply to all situations autopilot disengages, such as when it can't read a paint line, or a bit of sunlight or dust hits the camera(s)?
     
    • Like x 1
  12. 787steve

    787steve Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    Cary, NC
    Not well written, but surely that part is also linked to "after alerts are repeatedly ignored". If it was disengaged due to insufficient input it simply wouldn't engage until that issue was rectified. Right? I sure hope so.
     
  13. Tam

    Tam Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,048
    Location:
    Visalia, CA

    I understand that when Autopilot is optimal such as good line markings, good lighting, clean sensors, human hands presence... it would not generate any alerts.

    It would generate alerts when it is not optimal including failure to sense human pressure on steering.

    I would understand it as "in all situations," once the Autosteer is disengaged because of ignoring alerts, you will have to put your car in park first before you can use Autosteer again.
     
  14. TaoJones

    TaoJones Beyond Driven

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,299
    Location:
    The Americas
    That's just wrong :). But here's a bigger spoon to stir *that* pot.

    Doesn't seem like an onerous restriction at all. Distracted driving and nodding off remain huge mostly unaddressed problems; any efforts toward reducing same whether with AP engaged or not are at least worth a try.
     
  15. 787steve

    787steve Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    Cary, NC
    I agree. And it seems reasonable. If someone continues to ignore warnings, they may indeed be physiologically unable to do so. (sleepy, intoxicated, ill, etc.) If so, I wouldn't want them trying to use autopilot to replace themselves at the controls. Autosteer is a driver assist, not a driver replacement.

    The one thing I wish was different is that when the AP disengages, I wish the notification was somewhat more robust. I suspect that many people have missed the visual and audio cues telling them the system has disengaged. This seems dangerous to me.
     
    • Like x 2
  16. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    4,722
    Location:
    Hickory, NC, USA
    #16 wk057, Aug 28, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
    I've messed with 8.0. Honestly, it's a few UI eye candy items to mask the whopping new autopilot neutering, IMO. I see nothing worth updating for, and it's disappointing. The only thing I like about it vs 7.1 is the ability to make the map take up basically the whole screen.

    I actually don't really think I care if I can hack out the restrictions on 8.0 or not.... I've seen nothing that would compel me to even bother to try nor to put the update on my car.

    So much for hands free on-ramp to off-ramp driving. Pretty sure the 7.1 branch is going to be last official set of updates I install from Tesla since it's obvious they have no intention of actually following through on their initial promises for autopilot. Instead of actually making it better they're just making it more impossible to use.

    For those who don't know, I've had all nags and restrictions hacked out of 7.1 for a while now. And honestly, it's awesome. It's exactly as it should be. It works well enough. I pay attention, and when I need to I take over. Simple. It just works. I've even hacked it to try harder to follow vehicles on roads with no lane markings and have managed to follow my wife through my neighborhood with no input, and no lines on the road, through full turns and all. I regularly drive from Hickory to Winston-Salem and back occasionally (70 miles each way)... and I take over through the construction in Statesville. Other than that I can comfortably not worry about the car whining about holding the wheel and it's perfect. (I should do a time-lapse of this one day.) Not bragging, just pointing out how Tesla *could* make it if they stopped focusing on useless restrictions. I refuse to take steps *backwards*.

    Anyway, I think 8.0 is going to prompt me to just start work on my own custom firmware for the whole car, and be done with Tesla's. So much awesome that can be done that Tesla just is not doing, and honestly I believe that I alone could make a more compelling UI.... so I think it's time I do so.
     
    • Like x 5
    • Informative x 3
    • Love x 3
  17. Tam

    Tam Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,048
    Location:
    Visalia, CA
    #17 Tam, Aug 28, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
    I assume Tesla would like to create an impression that it caves in to public outcries so it has to do something even if it's useless. It's just similar to what it did with deleting Chinese "Autopilot" terminology equivalent from its Chinese language web pages.
     
  18. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,399
    Location:
    San Diego
    Wk, how are you hacking the Tesla code? Presumably you don't have access to source code.
     
  19. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,704
    Location:
    Colorado
    Don't you read assembler ?

     
    • Funny x 1
  20. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,375
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    You have a remarkably high opinion of yourself. Reminds me of this guy:

    “I alone can fix it,”

    Donald Trump, July 2016

    Trump's Claim: ‘I Alone Can Fix It’
     
    • Dislike x 4

Share This Page