Driver Dave
Member
Yeah, it shows what I've seen both in AP1 and AP2 - local winding roads (especially in dark) is not the best place to use them.
There is a reason why they say beta and pay attention and keep hands on wheel.
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Yeah, it shows what I've seen both in AP1 and AP2 - local winding roads (especially in dark) is not the best place to use them.
There is a reason why they say beta and pay attention and keep hands on wheel.
I can't believe that even a FUDster would attempt to blame autopilot for a drunk driver doing double the speed limit and avoiding a car going the wrong direction. It doesn't bloody well matter whether autopilot was engaged or not in that circumstance. This is NOT autonomous driving. Driver assistance features exist on other cars. Cruise control has existed for decades. Please find some other subject to troll and don't return to TMC, imispgh.
JohnnyG
Weee!
Because he is an attention hound.... Look at everything he has written, where he has posted, his choice of topics, his examples, his offense/defense, his hypocrisy, etc... No respectable engineer would spread such blatant slander. They would double fact check themselves first and veer away from all the dramatic sensationalism...
On a side note: I think all cars need to be recalled because they let me move the seat while I'm barreling down the highway. I could slide the seat all the way back and not reach the brake pedal. Cars shouldn't let you do that! They need to fix this now!! Oh wait, I should adjust the seat *before* I'm barreling down the highway and not adjust it *while* I'm barreling down the highway. I guess I should just keep my hands on the wheel, like instructed, while using a driver assistance tool too.
I don't think anything needs to be shut down.
"Imagine if the car was going faster" - Perhaps that is why they set speed limits when using?
First, to use Autosteer you had to "Opt in" that this is beta software.
Secondly, you need to activate the system.
My point is nothing is being forced on the driver. I use it, but I'm hyper-aware when it is on.
The OP is a same day member. He seems to have a thing about Musk. Perhaps he has a alternative agenda? Do you think?
"Imagine if the car was going faster" - Perhaps that is why they set speed limits when using?
First, to use Autosteer you had to "Opt in" that this is beta software.
Secondly, you need to activate the system.
My point is nothing is being forced on the driver. I use it, but I'm hyper-aware when it is on.
The OP is a same day member. He seems to have a thing about Musk. Perhaps he has a alternative agenda? Do you think?
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Is there any reason to believe that AP2 should be any better than what's in the Mercedes? I'm sure the guys working at there are as smart as the ones working at Tesla and Tesla's head start went right out the window with the breakup with MobileEye.
On the bright side the constant updating of the software means that there is hope of significant improvement if you drive a Tesla.
Edit -- Full disclosure. I've never driven a car with AP2, just AP1 which works very well.
On the bright side the constant updating of the software means that there is hope of significant improvement if you drive a Tesla.
Edit -- Full disclosure. I've never driven a car with AP2, just AP1 which works very well.
Sigh.... not this argument again.
1. Autopilot != Autonomous driving
2. You're supposed to keep your hands on the wheel
3. Have you driven a Tesla with AP? If not, your outrage is misplaced
4. There are stupid people in every bunch, including Tesla owners. As an engineer, you're supposed to look at statistics. The video might represent the stupid things Tesla drivers do. How many more miles are driven by someone using AP in the proper manner?
5. I agree that Musk overhyped AutoPilot, just like he did everything else. Instead of asking for the NHTSA to turn off AP, why not ask them to have Musk issue a statement about the true usage of AP. That's about as likely to happen as us taking a pig to space in the next 7 seconds.
'round and 'round we go
1. Autopilot != Autonomous driving
2. You're supposed to keep your hands on the wheel
3. Have you driven a Tesla with AP? If not, your outrage is misplaced
4. There are stupid people in every bunch, including Tesla owners. As an engineer, you're supposed to look at statistics. The video might represent the stupid things Tesla drivers do. How many more miles are driven by someone using AP in the proper manner?
5. I agree that Musk overhyped AutoPilot, just like he did everything else. Instead of asking for the NHTSA to turn off AP, why not ask them to have Musk issue a statement about the true usage of AP. That's about as likely to happen as us taking a pig to space in the next 7 seconds.
'round and 'round we go
What is your evidence for "most folks being lulled into a false confidence"? I say "most folks quickly appreciate the benefits and limitations of AP and stay within them." I have exactly as much evidence.
I have, and the driver is not using the AP in a situation where it is intended, but he is using it while paying attention. There is only one line marked on the road and being detected by the system (as you can see on the dash display). When the car starts veering, you take control, just as the driver did. If you find this happening repeatedly, you stop using AP. That's how it works. Where there are 2 lines clearly marked, the car does very well, but even then we all know it's not perfect. If you drive expecting it to be perfect, you'll crash, but there are multiple feedback systems and warnings telling you that it's not perfect and that you must remain in command of the vehicle. It is clearly not designed for surface roads and that is made quite clear.
Again, where's your evidence? I read the NHTSA review and it was quite thorough, I don't see them "deferring" to anyone, and why would they. Hell, they won't even allow the freaking cameras to replace rear view mirrors! They have a lot more to lose by allowing AP than by restricting it.
There is a lot of value to all those miles and I can think of no better way to collect it. And you are totally making it up that it is "accident data" that is being collected--zero evidence for that at all. They do collect accident data, but not necessarily as part of the AP program, they've been doing that since well before AP.
Data so far suggests lives are being saved by the technology, can you produce one iota of evidence to the contrary? What are these faster and better ways? You throw that out there like it is obvious, but maybe I'm not too smart and need it spelled out. I don't see how you can get road data for Nixa, MO county roads and where the AP will have difficulty and needs improvement other than real-time data collection like they're doing.
I'm all for building a better safer mouse trap. But you told me off-line that you've never even driven a Tesla with AP and even said that you would not! You're totally barging in to this web site, screaming about the sky falling, and have zero first hand evidence, you've made multiple claims that you can't support and there is good evidence that your data is wrong and that lives are being saved and accidents avoided by the use of AP, even in it's current immature form.
In some of the fail videos the car crosses into oncoming traffic very rapidly. Given that you won't override the car until you see that it's screwing up even if you are paying attention there's a worryingly high chance that you would nick the car in the other lane or cause them to swerve.
While I think the OP's motivations are dubious, I have to basically agree.
All the comments about AP1 safety record have no bearing on AP2...one would expect that Tesla would only release AP2 when it worked AT LEAST AS WELL, so that safety case can be made. I feel AP1 was already risky and depended on good drivers to know when and where to use it, but I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen a major AP2 accident yet. (there might just not be that many vehicles..and the speed is slow enough that driver intervention can be late). It seems clear that if Tesla enabled AP2 at the 90mph limit that we have for AP1, there would be many crashes. In other words, the path determination function doesn't perform well enough to be dependable.
Even the most optimistic Tesla owner must be thinking, "they sold me a car that had 8 cameras, then turned one of them on...and realized many of them are misaligned and function poorly. How soon can they seriously be expecting to competently implement the other 7 cameras?!" I know it's difficult to come to terms with what has happened with AP2 rollout, but you have clearly been mislead here.
When this all goes pear shaped, we will ALL lose Autopilot! This is why we can't have nice things
All the comments about AP1 safety record have no bearing on AP2...one would expect that Tesla would only release AP2 when it worked AT LEAST AS WELL, so that safety case can be made. I feel AP1 was already risky and depended on good drivers to know when and where to use it, but I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen a major AP2 accident yet. (there might just not be that many vehicles..and the speed is slow enough that driver intervention can be late). It seems clear that if Tesla enabled AP2 at the 90mph limit that we have for AP1, there would be many crashes. In other words, the path determination function doesn't perform well enough to be dependable.
Even the most optimistic Tesla owner must be thinking, "they sold me a car that had 8 cameras, then turned one of them on...and realized many of them are misaligned and function poorly. How soon can they seriously be expecting to competently implement the other 7 cameras?!" I know it's difficult to come to terms with what has happened with AP2 rollout, but you have clearly been mislead here.
When this all goes pear shaped, we will ALL lose Autopilot! This is why we can't have nice things
Do you have a car with AP2, or even AP1?
Because I do (AP1), and when I keep my hands on the wheel, I prevent AP from doing stupid things.
And trust me, AP1 was VERY drunk when it just came out, so don't tell me that AP2 is soooo much worse than AP1 that I don't know what I'm talking about.
I have AP1 and you don't know what you are talking about as you have not driven AP2. People with AP2 says that it's much worse and the videos would seem to back that up. To my knowledge nobody who as owned both AP1 and AP2 says that AP2 is good or better. The systems are totally different.
No, but they do get a large warning pop up on the dash every single time they engage autosteer.
You have no idea how bad AP2 is since you have never used it and therefore you clearly don't know what you are talking about. How could you?
I'm not claiming that I have any more information than you, but you are trying to make it seem like everything is fine with AP2 when everybody who has it and who posts here is saying that it is not even close to OK.
I have it, frequently use it, and, as long as it's used according to the frequently-given instructions, it's perfectly OK(well, I'd prefer being able to go freeway speeds and to *not* have to babysit it quite so much on local roads, but it's OK in terms of matching the spec).
Sure, it could be and absolutely should get better. But even in its current state, it's extremely useful, particularly in any kind of traffic on the freeway.
I keep my hands on the wheel and my foot on the "gas". (I'm much more relaxed and in control than when I was teaching my kids.)
I enjoy watching and taking over control - more than just driving. When it finally takes over completely it will be like the kids getting their licenses.
I enjoy watching and taking over control - more than just driving. When it finally takes over completely it will be like the kids getting their licenses.
No. They had a choice, they just didn't like it. They could have said, "we can't provide an Autopilot system at this time, and we don't know when we will be able to do so."
Sales would have tanked, so maybe that was considered not an option. If one of these cars went left of center, and struck your family riding in another vehicle, you might think releasing a half-baked internal beta to unsuspecting customers shouldn't be an option.
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