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The DOJ Tesla probe has expanded to include EV driving ranges

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A guess-o-meter is an estimated range display. It attempts to guess at how far you’ll be able to drive based on recent driving. This term was lovingly coined by Nissan LEAF owners back in 2011, and is often abbreviated GOM.

Smart route planning and range estimations still work even without previous connectivity.
Thanks for the explanation. I don't know- the guy at the service center specifically said it would no longer do smart route planning if I wasn't subscribed to premium connectivity. The range estimations- yes-still works fine.
I am having to adjust my thinking regarding how many miles I can actually get out of my MY despite what it says in terms of how many miles I have left to drive. Learning a lot here though.
 
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Thanks for the explanation. I don't know- the guy at the service center specifically said it would no longer do smart route planning if I wasn't subscribed to premium connectivity. The range estimations- yes-still works fine.
I am having to adjust my thinking regarding how many miles I can actually get out of my MY despite what it says in terms of how many miles I have left to drive. Learning a lot here though.
The live map doesn't show traffic but it still routes based on traffic
 
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Others EVs with guessometers still do smart range predictions when as destination is entered into navigation.

The guessometer is only for reference when not using navigation, in which case they are more accurate than looking at Teslas rated range number at the top of the screen.
 
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333 Wh/mi is not very good. For both 19M3LR and 22MYLR I have the same efficiency of 278 Wh/mi, so Tesla seems to be 20% more efficient than Kia? But it is only 3% more efficient (still more efficient!) than Kia if we take 260 miles range as the most efficient average drive in eco mode.
Yes, this is due to the increased drag of the EV6 vs the MY, but also consider the Kia makes 576hp and the Tesla significantly less. I don't know how or if that affects efficiency.
 
Having owned two cars with range guessometers, I can unequivocally say that I do not prefer it over Tesla's approach (rated range display plus navigation estimation of % on arrival). The problem with guessometers is they only tell you what your estimated range will be based on recent driving while not taking into account potential changes down the road. You might be going along thinking you have enough range, then hit an elevation increase that you didn't know about, only to watch the guesstimation plummet. The same can be said for bad weather - the guessometer won't know anything about it, but Tesla's nav takes weather and elevation into account
My Volvo would begin a trip with a destination estimate, and it was never more than 2% off. My EV6 GT, not quite so good, but at least it will account for recent driving activity and update as I go. The Tesla accounts for and adjusts for nothing, as I understand it.
 
My Volvo would begin a trip with a destination estimate, and it was never more than 2% off. My EV6 GT, not quite so good, but at least it will account for recent driving activity and update as I go. The Tesla accounts for and adjusts for nothing, as I understand it.
The Tesla energy screen with navigation destination accounts for everything and adjusts for everything and is very accurate and continuously updates.

The top of the display meter should be permanently set to percentage, and some item in service tab gives current estimate of max full pack battery energy.
 
My M3P reports a nominal full pack of 77.4kWh and my average usage is 343kW/mi (over 30K miles) so that means my nominal range is about 225mi. My current displayed full range is 303mi so my nominal efficiency is about 74%. My previous ICE got a reported 42MPG highway and I averaged 31.6 over the same span of time and distance on the same exact road (an intentional test). The two cars are operating at almost flawlessly the same offset percentage and I drive quite a bit faster in the Tesla. Based on 42MPG the ICE car would have had a 520mi range and at my normal 75% efficiency I would have still had a range of over 390mi which is still considerably more than even the optimal brand new 315mi range of the M3P.

The reason people cry about the range with EVs is you start with less range so the real world efficiency is more impactful.
 
Um. So, before 9/28/2023, I had a M3 LR RWD, 9/2018 vintage. It had 50k miles on it when a transfer-the-FSD bit was performed; and am now driving a 2023 M3 LR AWD. In addition, there's a 2021 MY LR AWD that gets driven around, sometimes long distances.

The 2018 M3 had a spec'd 260 W-hr/mile usage; the 2021 MY has a 270 W-hr/mile usage, as does the 2023 M3. (And I've got the Mulroney papers open in front of me, as it happens.

Now the kicker: On Interstates, local roads, and what-all, all three of these cars pretty much met the EPA numbers on range pretty closely. During the warm months, outside of October through March, especially on trips, the rated range (shown at the top of the screens) and the actual range (seen on the Energy screen) were either in a dead heat or the actual range was more.

As it happens, both the SO and I are not jackrabbit starters, nor do we race around and Go For The Corners. We do floor things, when called for, from time to time. But, before having Teslas, both of us drove econoboxes for decades, up to and including the 2010 Gen III Prius. Owning a Prius is interesting: The controls and displays make it a game of maxing out the gas mileage, which both of us were happy to do.

So, while I wouldn't call the two of us hypermilers, we're not the types to screetch rubber.

Now, cold weather impacted the 2018 M3 pretty severely. It would go from its nominal 260 W-hr/mile to around 330 W-hr/mile during the dead of winter; it's keeping the cabin warm that does it for energy usage. The 2021 MY has been dropping a bit in winter, to maybe 280-290 after a few miles of warm-up, but that's what a heat pump will do for the climate energy. I pretty much expect the 2023 M3 will do the same.

In fact, I have a fair amount of respect for the EPA numbers. In general, over the decades, I've never had much trouble meeting or bettering the EPA numbers for the Civics, Toyotas, and Dodge Caravans we've owned. Which is what makes this accusation against Tesla so weird. The other part.. maybe somebody here will explain this, but why is it the DOJ going after Tesla? Why isn't the EPA doing it?
 
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Just found this. That's allot of varied charges... More than just the advertised range of its vehicles. Crazy. I guess that's why the DOJ is involved.
 
Thanks for the explanation. I don't know- the guy at the service center specifically said it would no longer do smart route planning if I wasn't subscribed to premium connectivity. The range estimations- yes-still works fine.
I am having to adjust my thinking regarding how many miles I can actually get out of my MY despite what it says in terms of how many miles I have left to drive. Learning a lot here though.
I think you can feed your Tesla navigation from your phone's WiFi just fine if you have no subscription for Tesla connectivity.
 
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Just found this. That's allot of varied charges... More than just the advertised range of its vehicles. Crazy. I guess that's why the DOJ is involved.
Old news, really. Haven't heard much of news regarding cases against Nikola recently ... cuz they have no money, I guess. There will be always a case against a rich company or person. Just saying...
 
even thats pretty terrible for a 19M3LR
It's rated at 250 Wh/mi. I traveled in the car, drive in cold weather, drive in hot weather. It's 30F outside and driving to work some 15 miles on a highway with a fully resistive heating is usually well over 300 Wh/mi, so 278 Wh/mi over 53k looks just fine to me. Newer M3s are more efficient, I agree.
 
My M3P reports a nominal full pack of 77.4kWh and my average usage is 343kW/mi (over 30K miles) so that means my nominal range is about 225mi. My current displayed full range is 303mi so my nominal efficiency is about 74%. My previous ICE got a reported 42MPG highway and I averaged 31.6 over the same span of time and distance on the same exact road (an intentional test). The two cars are operating at almost flawlessly the same offset percentage and I drive quite a bit faster in the Tesla. Based on 42MPG the ICE car would have had a 520mi range and at my normal 75% efficiency I would have still had a range of over 390mi which is still considerably more than even the optimal brand new 315mi range of the M3P.

The reason people cry about the range with EVs is you start with less range so the real world efficiency is more impactful.
I think the reason people complain about Teslas here is that yours was advertised to get 300+ mi range.
 
... dropping a bit in winter, to maybe 280-290 after a few miles of warm-up, but that's what a heat pump will do for the climate energy. I pretty much expect the 2023 M3 will do the same.

In fact, I have a fair amount of respect for the EPA numbers. In general, over the decades, I've never had much trouble meeting or bettering the EPA numbers for the Civics, Toyotas, and Dodge Caravans we've owned. Which is what makes this accusation against Tesla so weird. The other part.. maybe somebody here will explain this, but why is it the DOJ going after Tesla? Why isn't the EPA doing it?
Tried to respond to you earlier but didn't properly quote you. So just this blurb listing the many charges make sense to me about why DOJ is involved. I asked someone more involved than I in the world of EVs about this, and they said similar charges had been filed in Europe and these chargers had just "gone away". They expected these to do the same. Which if true means the EPA rating discrepancies will get little attention either.
I'm most disturbed when I read the investor relations reports and hear Elon going on about the dangers of a Terminator like situation happening. It seems there's always something to worry about. But I guess that's a different thread.
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Tried to respond to you earlier but didn't properly quote you. So just this blurb listing the many charges make sense to me about why DOJ is involved. I asked someone more involved than I in the world of EVs about this, and they said similar charges had been filed in Europe and these chargers had just "gone away". They expected these to do the same. Which if true means the EPA rating discrepancies will get little attention either.
I'm most disturbed when I read the investor relations reports and hear Elon going on about the dangers of a Terminator like situation happening. It seems there's always something to worry about. But I guess that's a different thread.
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OK. So, let's parse this a bit. Tesla has "request for information" and "subpoenas" from the DOJ. Subpoenas are things that, as far as I know, require a Judge's signature. Requests for information, I guess, don't.

The EPA is one of those government agencies that, I think, have administrative judges and such that aren't, as far as I know, can do civil judgements and such. I'm honestly not sure how their relationship with the DOJ works, although I understand that there are environmental lawyers that work in the DOJ. Perhaps joined at the hip?

If one does a web search for "cheating on EPA gas mileage" there's tons of references to various things that the EPA has gotten involved with, from just plain misstating numbers (GM, Kia, etc.) and stuff like Deiselgate. The press releases all seem to be from the EPA.. but maybe the failures were prosecuted by the DOJ?

Any lawyers in the house?
 
What is this?
WLTP stands for Worldwide Harmonized Light Vehicles Test Procedure. It is a global standard for measuring the fuel consumption and emissions of vehicles, including electric vehicles (EVs). In terms of electric vehicle range, WLTP provides a standardized testing procedure to estimate the distance an electric vehicle can travel on a single charge under specific conditions, helping consumers compare the range of different EV models more accurately. It takes into account factors such as speed, driving patterns, and environmental conditions to provide a more realistic estimate of real-world EV range compared to older testing methods like NEDC (New European Driving Cycle).
 
What is this?
WLTP stands for Worldwide Harmonized Light Vehicles Test Procedure. It is a global standard for measuring the fuel consumption and emissions of vehicles, including electric vehicles (EVs). In terms of electric vehicle range, WLTP provides a standardized testing procedure to estimate the distance an electric vehicle can travel on a single charge under specific conditions, helping consumers compare the range of different EV models more accurately. It takes into account factors such as speed, driving patterns, and environmental conditions to provide a more realistic estimate of real-world EV range compared to older testing methods like NEDC (New European Driving Cycle).
Thanks for clarifying that. I appreciate when the acronyms are spelled out. Maybe folks could be aware in their posts in general that not everybody is in on the abbreviations. It would help in understanding 👍
 
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