The end of "Autopilot" (term)

[Spidy]

From Wikipedia:

"An autopilot is a system used to control the trajectory of a vehicle without constant 'hands-on' control by a human operator being required. Autopilots do not replace a human operator, but assist them in controlling the vehicle, allowing them to focus on broader aspects of operation, such as monitoring the trajectory, weather and systems."

In context of Tesla advertising, appears to be quite accurate...especially "Autopilots do not replace a human operator"

That goes completely against what Tesla states everywhere, especially in all their official responses regarding any kind of Autopilot accident.

 

[jdw]

Rather than focussing on an accurate name like AutoPilot, perhaps California should take a look at all the media reports about "self-driving cars" - those reports are far more likely to set up false expectations than the name for a suite of technologies. From this point of view, it doesn't matter what Tesla calls the technology, the expectation of what it is is set in the media.

Worse, those inaccurate terms almost always come up in a sensationalized accident report article , so win/win for California & Tesla.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I think I am well educated and reasonably intelligent. Although i will now attempt to disprove that!

I've read the threads, read skilled Pilots explain exactly how Auto Pilot works in a plane, and I now understand that properly.

BUT ... if you had asked me what Auto[pilot meant, before I started thinking about owning a Tesla, I expect I would have said:

Autopilot flies straight and level. I expect I would also have thought that you could program in a course - i.e. fly THIS course to THAT point/beacon and then change to THIS NEW heading.

My understanding is that Autopilot can be used to LAND a large jet. Probably also for take off (e.g. in fog). That said, my expectation would have been that Pilots normally do that job (manually), maybe using Autopilot to "assist" only.

I would have said that a pilot [flying on autopilot] might well have his hands off the yoke, and I would assume that the pilot would, at times, be doing paperwork / navigation calculations / checking lists etc. (all appertaining to flying, not reading the newspaper!). My expectation would have been that if the pilot needed to do anything, in an emergency, then he would get a warning in sufficient time - e.g. TCAS would alert to a plane on a collision course, air traffic control would tell the pilot something, or some other warning instrument would demand the pilots attention. None of those things would happen needing instant response (unlike a Tesla diving into the adjacent lane), because all such warnings would occur with sufficient warning time for the Pilot to take action in good time [because the warning systems were smart enough to provide EARLY warnings, so not wait "until a collision was inevitable" as per AEB for example]

I would not have expected the Pilot (well "Both/All Pilots/Crew") to leave the cockpit, with the plane on autopilot

I can well imagine that I would have extrapolated that to a Tesla using AP to being drivable hands-on-lap on the highway. Of course, I now realise that whilst the reaction time needed for a rock in the middle of the road is probably good enough for hands-on-lap (assuming an attentive driver) the car taking an unexpected dive for the next lane (and a million other such edge conditions that don't exist at 40,000 feet with the nearest other structure a mile away from you) means that is not sufficient. I very much doubt that I would have thought that through fully, and come to good conclusions, if I had not read these forums.

I also would not have considered any of this in the context of 2.5 Tons of metal hurtling along at 70 MPH (clearly I c/should have done, but that thought did not occur to me in that context).

I now understand very well what Autopilot means in Aviation. Wikipedia and the dictionary are crystal clear. That was NOT how my brain converted the term into the context of usage on a Car.

I also, having read these forums, know of all sorts of edge conditions where AP is unreliable - cresting a rise, stopped vehicle in my lane, etc. They are probably all covered in the manual, I have STILL not read that fully, and I am not sure I would have registered those printed warnings sufficiently to translate them into deliberate acts that I must perform if I find myself in various edge-situations.

I would like a Simulator to train myself about those or, at the very least, decent YouTube videos of all the edge conditions to be aware of (and perhaps even a requirement to watch them).

I reckon (but who knows ...) that lots of other people would follow a similar thought process.

Given what I NOW know, and what I have read HERE, I only ever drive with hands-on-wheel when using AP and, until the technology can provide a decent warning time if there is a problem, I personally think everyone has to do that too and therefore, maybe, that Auto-Pilot as a descriptive term needs to change ... or there needs to be a serious education campaign for what the technology CAN and CANNOT do. People dying through ignorance of ideal use of a brand-new-feature-of-technology is too little, too late.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I guess confusing is in the eye of the beholder. To me, autopilot is perfectly descriptive. Everyone knows that a plane can't fly itself, and that autopilot is just a form of cruise control. There are still two pilots up there, very much required.

Autopilot absolutely allows the pilot to do other things which would not be appropriate in a vehicle where hands on the wheel are required at all times. Pilots are also not using beta software with bugs... You have two flights to choose from, one uses a beta version of autopilot and another uses a stable, release version. Which flight do you think people are going to choose?

Yep, airplane pilots have been routinely leaving the cockpit and crashing the aircraft since the 50s because they turned on the AutoPilot.

They know how to use it and understand its limitations. They don't post YouTube videos of themselves using the feature irresponsibly and in situations for which it was not designed. Clearly there is a major disconnect between how customers are perceiving the technology and how it is supposed to be used.

So is the term "Automobile" also confusing and disingenuous? It states, quite literally, that the car will automatically move itself around. That strongly implies autonomy. Right?

It's unlikely that anyone is using the term "automobile" as a way to promote semi-autonomous capabilities like Tesla is using the term "Autopilot". It's clearly caused some confusion judging by how people are using the feature. Anyone who takes his or her hands off the wheel while using this feature is violating Tesla's written instructions and warnings. I would bet that covers about 90% of the people here.

I was interviewed by a Reuters reporter about Autopilot and its shortcomings. We had a great conversation. Suffice to say that there are many in the industry, including regulators, who do not appreciate Tesla's naming convention and see it as potentially misleading.

Rather than focussing on an accurate name like AutoPilot, perhaps California should take a look at all the media reports about "self-driving cars" - those reports are far more likely to set up false expectations than the name for a suite of technologies. From this point of view, it doesn't matter what Tesla calls the technology, the expectation of what it is is set in the media.

Actually, it's Tesla's marketing that is setting this expectation. You have to ask yourself, what is it about Tesla's messaging that makes so many people think this? Blaming the media doesn't fly on so many levels. I suppose Donald Trump bears zero responsibility with how the media is covering him, too?

 

[jbcarioca]

A always felt that the term "Autopilot" was confusing and disingenuous. It states, quite literally, that the car will automatically pilot itself. That strongly implies autonomy. Tesla should have named it "Co-Pilot", as that implies a cooperation between the software and the pilot - you, the driver. I hope this draft legislation passes and that Tesla is forced to rename the feature to something less confusing, less misleading...
.

I will not dispute your point because you clearly do not know what an autopilot is.

Every aircraft pilot who has ever used one knows that they do not fly the aircraft themselves, they are an aide to the pilot(s). Were there to be any implication that "autopilot" equals "autonomous" what would pilots be for? Obviously the autopilot, however capable, cannot be autonomous. None of them, let me shout NONE, are capable of changing instructions automatically, NONE are so reliable that the pilot(s) can leave them alone.

I reluctantly agree that the perfectly accurate and precise term "Autopilot" might be discarded because of people who cannot be bothered to know what an autopilot is.

I apologize for ranting. The term is the only unambiguous perfectly descriptive term to use. Any other will lose the accuracy and precision.

FWIW, while autonomous aircraft are theoretically possible, as are autonomous cars, none of either are fit for anything other than testing at the moment.

Would you ride around in an autonomous airliner? Neither would I.

So why think that "autopilot"="autonomous"? This is not rhetorical, I really want to know.

 

[larmor]

In related news, the state of CA will be asked to change its tax code to more properly reflect its true nature, and will now be termed "auto-tax," wherein it is known to the state of california that the california tax code continues on its own without supervision to remove money from individuals and corporations without any true guidance or oversight and free from human intervention...

 

[gavine]

T esla
E lectronic
S teering and
L ane
A ssist

 

[jbcarioca]

I think I am well educated and reasonably intelligent. Although i will now attempt to disprove that!
....

You really failed miserably with that "disprove" part.

You have posted the first clear and cogent explanation of how the misunderstandings happen. At least the first one I have ever seen. I appreciate your post precisely because it explains teh disconnect that has so frustrated those of us whose lives have been intertwined with autopilots of various types.

You do bring up a very good point. As all those technologies advance we need to have vehicle specific training (similar to type ratings in aircraft). Driving the current Model S or X really needs different knowledge than does a Toyota Corolla. Driving a Leaf could use some training too. Come to think of it a Ferrari almost never could be given to someone who knows Chevy Nova while expecting good results. Yet the only distinctions commonly in use for road vehicles are weight-related and commercial vs non-commercial. Should that change?

I think you've convinced me that Tesla should offer a mandatory, at least one day, course in use of the vehicles prior to turning a new driver loose. Accidents should go down.

In aircraft such short courses have ben used in a wide variety of situations and produced lower accident rates and happier pilots. Why cannot we do that with Tesla?

 

[DrGuest]

I think auto pilot is a totally appropriate name for this suite of safety features and Tesla has done a great job describing what it can and cannot do. However, the viral videos of people pushing it way beyond how it should be used is what is setting a dangerous expectation of full autonomy and is influencing general opinion thinking this is a dangerous technology needing regulating. If people would keep both hands on the wheel, until told otherwise, and just use it like Tesla recommends, all this other restriction would be unnecessary. I love auto pilot, but I have both hands on the lower half of the steering which relaxes my shoulders, cutting down on fatigue and certainly not allow me to multitask while driving. Multitasking while driving is a sure fire way to get in an accident. In Montana, I have lots of times that the Tech is still lacking the amount of data to Auto steer. As more AP driving data is collected and correlated Montana will join other more traveled areas but it will take time. I do my best, however to drive my MS90D as much as possible to help contribute to the data pool and hive intelligence optimization

 

[habanero69]

You really failed miserably with that "disprove" part.

You have posted the first clear and cogent explanation of how the misunderstandings happen. At least the first one I have ever seen. I appreciate your post precisely because it explains teh disconnect that has so frustrated those of us whose lives have been intertwined with autopilots of various types.

You do bring up a very good point. As all those technologies advance we need to have vehicle specific training (similar to type ratings in aircraft). Driving the current Model S or X really needs different knowledge than does a Toyota Corolla. Driving a Leaf could use some training too. Come to think of it a Ferrari almost never could be given to someone who knows Chevy Nova while expecting good results. Yet the only distinctions commonly in use for road vehicles are weight-related and commercial vs non-commercial. Should that change?

I think you've convinced me that Tesla should offer a mandatory, at least one day, course in use of the vehicles prior to turning a new driver loose. Accidents should go down.

In aircraft such short courses have ben used in a wide variety of situations and produced lower accident rates and happier pilots. Why cannot we do that with Tesla?

So, you are saying I must take some sort of class or training upon delivery or I will not be allowed to take my car? Not likely to ever happen... Even if this somehow came about, what happens when I take the car home after said training, hand the keys to the wife/friend, and they take off, no training? Who's fault is that and how is it enforced? Not saying some form of new buyer education doesn't make sense, but I can't see it being (en)forced.

 

[Darren Donovan]

I don't think the comparison with airplane auto pilot is meaningful. The vast majority of airline pilots are educated, intelligent, and responsible people. It's the opposite with drivers on the road today. Most of them shouldn't be licensed to drive.

 

[WannabeOwner]

So, you are saying I must take some sort of class or training upon delivery or I will not be allowed to take my car?

I did get that, kind of, from my delivery specialist and some High performance car marques have come with a performance driving course - the Model S is not exactly a slouch!

My Delivery Specialist spent the best part of two hours going through everything with me. The Autopilot bit was very brief, seemed sufficient at the time but I now realise it would have been better if he had explained more(**), probably would only add 5 or 10 minutes to the total instruction lecture. But actually I think I would be better off with an in depth training video, detailing the known edge conditions - there is only so much one can absorb in a training session, and a video would be equally useful for other drivers of the vehicle (my wife could not attend the delivery, so her instruction is only as good as whatever I remembered to tell her ... second hand ...)

There are videos on the Tesla website (delivery specialist never told me that / recommended it - I think they should) and, last time I looked, the Autopilot one was severely inadequate.

(**) I mean: especially because I, and many other new owners, had no experience of anything remotely like AP when driving any other car.

 

[1208]

Misread "draft" as "daft".

 

[Cyclone]

Terms such as “self-driving”, “automated”, “auto-pilot”, or other statements made that are
likely to induce a reasonably prudent person to believe a vehicle is autonomous

I guess I am not "a reasonably prudent person" as I never took "autopilot" = autonomous. Now, "self-driving", sure, but not "autopilot".

 

[Cyclone]

The simple solution would have been to require all cars to just advertise their capability using the SAE chart/require the level identifier in the name. Tesla's Level II AutoPilot would hopefully force the idiots to ask "What is Level II"?

 

[jbcarioca]

I don't think the comparison with airplane auto pilot is meaningful. The vast majority of airline pilots are educated, intelligent, and responsible people. It's the opposite with drivers on the road today. Most of them shouldn't be licensed to drive.

Ah, possibly my long experience as a flight instructor teaching jet transitions makes me cynical but...I see limited difference between typical airline pilots and typical car drivers except that the former are lots more vain. The forced training seems to be a big issue, as is the foolproof nature (mostly) of airliners. It is simple operating design and tons of forced training that keeps these people from accidents. Once in a long, long while somebody competent runs into a huge problem and does outstanding service, but mostly the system prevents them from harming anything.

Oh, I know I'm too cynical, but I tired of airline pilots tying to kill me during LRJET V1 cuts...

No argument on car drivers either.

 

[Canuck]

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".

 

[JohnSnowNW]

So, would MB have to change theirs from "Drive Pilot?"

 

[cynix]

And would Nissan have to change theirs from "ProPilot"? It makes it sound like the car is more "pro" at piloting than the driver!

 

[flashflood]

So, you are saying I must take some sort of class or training upon delivery or I will not be allowed to take my car?

Oh, not just once. Every time there's a firmware update!