The Key Fob

[efusco]

Not clear where you get "not true" from. I wasn't stating a fact. I was proposing a hypothetical. That aside...

We already know the key fob has an impact on the "openness" of the door handles, so it's already being detected outside the vehicle in some fashion. It's not that much of a stretch to assume that a sensor could misread or misinterpret the exact location of the fob as inside vs. outside. It seems like a reasonable "defense in depth" measure to react properly to the situation where the key "disappears" while driving. Perhaps that's just me though; I assume software (and hardware) are imperfect and try to react to the various theoretical states in a reasonable way, even if that are unexpected or unusual situations.

I think his point is not so much that it's "not true", but rather that that's not the way it works.

There are multiple and separate oscillators that do different jobs, the door sensors do not let you start the car any more than locking the fob inside the car will let you open the door. The fob must be within the proximity of the starting sensor to allow you to start the car.

 

[jerry33]

We already know the key fob has an impact on the "openness" of the door handles, so it's already being detected outside the vehicle in some fashion.

Yes, the car knows when you are near it. It also knows that the fob is outside so someone sitting in the car with no fob will not be able to start it.

It's not that much of a stretch to assume that a sensor could misread or misinterpret the exact location of the fob as inside vs. outside.

Of course, you can't prove a negative. I don't know how many transmitters are in the Model S, but in the Prius there are four (one under the dash, one in each of the front doors, and one in the rear hatch). Even if one misbehaves, the location of the fob is still known.

It seems like a reasonable "defense in depth" measure to react properly to the situation where the key "disappears" while driving. Perhaps that's just me though; I assume software (and hardware) are imperfect and try to react to the various theoretical states in a reasonable way, even if that are unexpected or unusual situations.

Right, which is why the fob isn't monitored once the car is in READY mode. In the Prius, if you exit the car with the fob the car will beep three times, but anyone will be able to drive it, they just won't be able to turn it back on if they power it down. In the Model S, this may be taken a step further if once you get out of the seat it may turn off (I don't know the specifics of how the Model S reacts).

 

[Todd Burch]

OK, so this all goes back to the question: Why does leaving the FOB in the car drain the battery faster than if I were to bring it inside and put it on the kitchen table?

 

[jerry33]

OK, so this all goes back to the question: Why does leaving the FOB in the car drain the battery faster than if I were to bring it inside and put it on the kitchen table?

Because when the fob is near or in the car (assuming the car is not turned on) the fob responds to the transmitters frequently. On the kitchen table it doesn't respond because there isn't any signal asking it to. In addition, at least this is how it works in the Prius, the frequency of the transmitters slows down when they don't sense a fob responding. After 14 days with no signal they stop sending out any signals and you have to press a button inside the car to start them again. Note that the car still responds to pressing the unlock buttons, it's just the automatic part that stops transmitting/responding.

 

[cinergi]

Also presumably to know whether to lock the car (have you left yet?) and whether to let the accessories on.

 

[Todd Burch]

Because when the fob is near or in the car (assuming the car is not turned on) the fob responds to the transmitters frequently. On the kitchen table it doesn't respond because there isn't any signal asking it to. In addition, at least this is how it works in the Prius, the frequency of the transmitters slows down when they don't sense a fob responding. After 14 days with no signal they stop sending out any signals and you have to press a button inside the car to start them again. Note that the car still responds to pressing the unlock buttons, it's just the automatic part that stops transmitting/responding.

OK...everyone here was arguing that once the car is "on", there's no need to ping the FOB anymore...but now it makes sense that if the car is not "on", the back-and-forth pinging would be taking place.

 

[MitchL]

Now that some of you have your cars, I can revisit one of my old "I wonders" with you new owners:

I wonder: Does your Model S remember any settings that are keyed to a particular fob?

I imagine seat settings go with fobs, that's pretty standard.

I'm _hoping_ that steering, suspension, regen mode, creep, and other things that change the way driving feels go with the fobs. I don't know for sure yet, but I suspect my wife and I will have different combinations of settings that we like, it would be silly to keep swapping them around.

On the "crazy thought" front, it would be cool if there were different radio/media presets based on which fob was in use.

/Mitch.

 

[contaygious]

I dont think memory is even implemented yet.

 

[sublimaze1]

Okay, so to resurrect a previous thought:

Key Fob + proximity + Tech Package = automatically extending door handles .... yes? no?

- and what about this wave your foot under the boot and the lid opens concept ... vaporware? truth?

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Okay, so to resurrect a previous thought:

Key Fob + proximity + Tech Package = automatically extending door handles .... yes? no?

Yes. Eventually, through a s/w update.

- and what about this wave your foot under the boot and the lid opens concept ... vaporware? truth?

Nope. Never promised or mentioned by Tesla. Maybe in the X or S 2.0.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Key Fob + proximity + Tech Package = automatically extending door handles .... yes? no?

This is being discussed over here: When are auto extending door handles coming (or not)?

and what about this wave your foot under the boot and the lid opens concept ... vaporware? truth?

I don't believe we ever heard officially from Tesla that this was planned, but we all agreed that it would be a great addition.

 

[bbmertz]

Another important software update will be to prevent the car from locking when the key fob is still inside the vehicle. This feature is particularly valuable in BMWs with comfort access which prevents you from locking the doors when the key is inside the car and from closing the trunk when the key is inside (e.g., in your briefcase).

 

[hans]

Another important software update will be to prevent the car from locking when the key fob is still inside the vehicle. This feature is particularly valuable in BMWs with comfort access which prevents you from locking the doors when the key is inside the car and from closing the trunk when the key is inside (e.g., in your briefcase).

Not sure I would like that feature. It means when I am driving, the door wont lock if my wife's purse is in the car with a second fob in it. I can hear it already...

Me: "Please be a dear and fish your fob from the frunk so the car will lock."
Her: "You have got to be kidding me, right?"

 

[Robert.Boston]

The car shouldn't lock automatically with a fob inside. Manual locking, either with the fob or from the touchscreen, should be allowed.

 

[spatterso911]

The car shouldn't lock automatically with a fob inside. Manual locking, either with the fob or from the touchscreen, should be allowed.

Unless the car is in motion, correct?

 

[Robert.Boston]

Unless the car is in motion, correct?

Right; thanks for the clarification.

 

[jkirkebo]

The car shouldn't lock automatically with a fob inside. Manual locking, either with the fob or from the touchscreen, should be allowed.

This is how the Leaf works. It has a button on exterior door handles for locking/unlocking. With a fob in the car the buttons won't lock the car, you have to press the lock button on the other fob.

 

[SuperCoug]

I think Citizen-T's approach is the right one.

Yep! +1 That seems like the way to go.

 

[dmetcalf]

Yes. Eventually, through a s/w update.



Nope. Never promised or mentioned by Tesla. Maybe in the X or S 2.0.

Automatic extend with proximity not enabled in yesterday's SW update...

- - - Updated - - -

When you're driving the car, the only check it does is if the fob leaves the car and it may be the action of opening the door that turns the monitoring on (I recommend not throwing the fob out the window on the freeway to test this) . If you think about it, once the car has been started, you don't want an interruption in the fob signal to create some action while you're driving.

I suspect that battery life is really a moot point. I replaced the fob battery at five years even though the manual says that 1.5 to 3 years is the normal fob battery life.

4 times so far, I have had other keys and a headset wire in my pocket and it registered that the fob was no longer in the car and that if stopped, the car would no longer restart. The fob was picked up again within 10 seconds in all cases and the dashboard message went away...

 

[sreehyd]

When you're driving the car, the only check it does is if the fob leaves the car and it may be the action of opening the door that turns the monitoring on (I recommend not throwing the fob out the window on the freeway to test this) . If you think about it, once the car has been started, you don't want an interruption in the fob signal to create some action while you're driving.

I suspect that battery life is really a moot point. I replaced the fob battery at five years even though the manual says that 1.5 to 3 years is the normal fob battery life.

My thought is, key fob should be smart enough to communicate back to car about its battery status and when it is low it should raise alarm !! We have seen similar behavior in several electronics gadgetry. This would ensure we don't end-up with a dead key fob on the go.