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The M3 terrifies BMW
- Thread starter JoeCoolMan24
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- Model 3
wallet.dat
Member
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Yes, an S60 starts at 77K Euro including delivery fee. But remember, that is the absolute naked barebones base model. No one who spends such an amount of money on a car buys a base model with no options. Not over here anyway, and I am sure only very few in other countries as well. So I included some of the options that are expected in the luxury segment if one would ever hope to have a chance of some resale value in the future. But the number stands, even that S60, without even the very handy dual motors, comes to over 101K Euro. And no, you don't need the 7-seat config to get over 100K Euro.
And the current exchange rate over here is 1.12 Euro to the Dollar, so my math seems to have been correct.
And if you want some more range and better performance, you are over 100K Euro very quickly. An S90D (naked) starts at over 102K Euro), an S75 (non D) at over 86K Euro. Not a chance that sales numbers over here will pick up significantly under these circumstances.
As I said in another thread, Model 3 can't come soon enough.
Actually, they probably do, but they're counting on the general public to not know. That's the key for them, spread enough disinformation to dissuade anyone who doesn't know any better. The problem with that thinking is that anyone who is seriously thinking about getting a car that costs more than say $25,000 will do at least a little research on it to find out what it's all about. So all the ad is going to do, maybe, is convince people who aren't serious anyway.
Of course, but there is a difference between no options and some options. For some reaching into that lowest price point from below, the beef may be the EV drive - for some of them, the car at its most basic is already the greatest car they've ever bought.
As I said, perhaps the base Model S shouldn't be considered a 77000 eur (or $75,000 car) car for an average base buyer, but I would expect calling it an 80000 to 85000 eur car is a lot closer to the point than, say, calling it a 100000 eur car. I really have a bit hard time seeing many buying loaded or nearly-loaded S60s, but people buying them at some level about 80k sounds a lot more likely to me.
For the math, I guess we had different exchange rates on hand, but no need to dwell on that. We both agree 100k USD certainly comes up faster in EU Model S pricing than in the U.S.
But the thing is, if you are already buying the base model, how likely is it that you will buy it nearly loaded?
I mean, sure, a lot of people buy high-specced high-end models, but someone buying the very base model, one has to look no further than TMC that a lot of people are actually buying it with only a an option or three. People are debating which option to leave out to reach a budget etc. For example, drop those 21" wheels, SAS, UHF and have base decorations (perfectly nice as is)... A lot of people here on TMC order without PUP too. Then the price of an S60 in Germany the car drops to 82640 eur while still retaining Auto-Pilot, panoramic roof, cold weather. You could still add PUP, SAS or UHF and remain in the 85000 eur ballpark. Certainly a lot more palatable than 100k+, and more perhaps reasonable given the car's base performance level.
And, look, I drive a nearly loaded 2014 Model S P85 and have a Model X Signature P90DL loaded on order, so as a buyer I get you - but the base-level buyer, even in this price range, does often act a bit different, I'd expect.
On Model 3 being needed and the Model S still being an expensive car, on that we agree of course.
The 2000 Honda Insight most assuredly gets better mileage than your hybrid! 70
MPG EPA on the sticker. Beat that.
Thank YOU kindly
RR
Thanks for the comparison. I just noticed that both of the BMWs (REX and 330) want Premium gas! On top of practically no battery.
But, we the smug EV-know-it-alls (including myself here), should be careful dismissing these commercials. They are aimed at the larger population who don't know amps from volts, watts, or KWH, nor what 14-50 or J1772 plugs are. All they know is that you plug things into the wall and they light up. These ads are simply aimed at just getting potential customers into the showroom, where the sales creatures can have at them. I would expect that there's a "talking points" guide given to the dealers to go along with the campaign, which probably has language that aims to rapidly check off the "need for green" items (e.g. charges anywhere), then moves the conversation to the traditional BMW features. Their objective here is certainly not technical accuracy (what ad ever is?), nor promoting EVs. It is to sell cars. Theirs.
Rather, I suggest that we should consider how to more effectively communicate with this same, larger, KWH-ignorant population. Perhaps a series of short "what if" spots that pick up our own talking points? Note the focus here is on what's in it for the customer, not some higher ideal. Hard to sell higher ideals to the general public, when it's their money you're asking for.
- What If: Magic elves could fill up your car every night, so you never have to take time out of your day to visit a gas station?
- What If: You could have a car where stop-and-go traffic didn't kill your gas mileage?
- What If: Your car's gas pedal were as responsive as your thoughts?
- What If: You never had to take time off work to change the oil, replace spark plugs, or get a smog check?
- What If: Every time you stepped on the brakes, your car put some gas back into the tank?
- What If: You could fill up the tank of your big huge SUV and get change back from a $20 bill?
- What If: Add your thoughts here...
Remember the marketing disaster that Pringles brand of potato chips experienced when they were touted as being "new fangled". Nobody wanted new. Things took off when instead they focused on the convenience of the packaging, and so forth. We can't win the EV battle by focusing on KWH and J1772 plugs.
What if upgrading to AWD made your car more efficient?
What if you could take out the engine and use the space for more cargo?
What if you could have hospital quality air in the car, even when stuck behind a stinky truck?
What if your car came out to meet you every morning?
What if you never had to pay for gas on road trips?
What if the car could drive itself in stop and go traffic and long boring freeway stretches?
What if you could take out the engine and use the space for more cargo?
What if you could have hospital quality air in the car, even when stuck behind a stinky truck?
What if your car came out to meet you every morning?
What if you never had to pay for gas on road trips?
What if the car could drive itself in stop and go traffic and long boring freeway stretches?
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
What if: You can warm-up the cabin of the car while it is parked inside the garage before your commute?
ccutrer
Active Member
What if you could turn on climate control from your phone minutes before you get to the car, so that it's perfectly comfortable by the time you walk out to the car?
What if you could sit in the parking lot with the A/C on, and not worry about idling?
What if your climate control was just as efficient while idling as it is when you are going at freeway speeds?
What if your car received software updates as often and as easily as your phone, gaining new features and bug fixes?
What if interacting with your cars infotainment system was as easy and intuitive as using your tablet? (seriously - I had a 2017 Audi Q7 rental for two days - I couldn't figure out something as simple as zooming the map in and out)
What if you could sit in the parking lot with the A/C on, and not worry about idling?
What if your climate control was just as efficient while idling as it is when you are going at freeway speeds?
What if your car received software updates as often and as easily as your phone, gaining new features and bug fixes?
What if interacting with your cars infotainment system was as easy and intuitive as using your tablet? (seriously - I had a 2017 Audi Q7 rental for two days - I couldn't figure out something as simple as zooming the map in and out)
But not by much
2004 Prius MPG from the logbook. (Complete years only):
2003-2004 -- 50.8 mpg 17,628 miles
2005 -- 52.6 mpg 14,688 miles
2006 -- 56.3 mpg 16,174 miles
2007 -- 57.3 mpg 18,384 miles
2008 -- 59.9 mpg 21,755 miles
2009 -- 61.4 mpg 16,177 miles
2010 -- 65.2 mpg 12,134 miles
2011 -- 66.9 mpg 11,272 miles
2012 -- 69.2 mpg 16,212 miles
Oops, I take that back. I misunderstood your comment.The 2000 Honda Insight most assuredly gets better mileage than your hybrid! 70
MPG EPA on the sticker. Beat that.
Thank YOU kindly
RR
RT
JeffK
Well-Known Member
But not by much
2004 Prius MPG from the logbook. (Complete years only):
2003-2004 -- 50.8 mpg 17,628 miles
2005 -- 52.6 mpg 14,688 miles
2006 -- 56.3 mpg 16,174 miles
2007 -- 57.3 mpg 18,384 miles
2008 -- 59.9 mpg 21,755 miles
2009 -- 61.4 mpg 16,177 miles
2010 -- 65.2 mpg 12,134 miles
2011 -- 66.9 mpg 11,272 miles
2012 -- 69.2 mpg 16,212 miles
Jeez, you must drive like a grandma with the AC off... I have a gen II prius (2007) and barely manage 45 mpg. I mean you keep a logbook, so that says something about the care you probably take while driving.
Actually, I ran the A/C quite a bit in that car (It's Texas, you do go without A/C). Mostly it's learning how to work with the car's engineering. (Having a ScanGauge and driving to the ignition timing helps.) I kept a logbook because I was annoyed at the number of folks who complained about the mpg. I'm not as anal about the Model S, so I just take a photo of the information once a month.
1. US needs to sell 10M EV's per year to replace 250M gasoline cars/light trucks. Eyup.
2. BMW i3 and BMW EV's and hybrids are close to 10% of US EV sales. Good for them.
3. Non-Tesla EV's and plug ins are 70% of market vs. Tesla's 30%. Good for both of them.
The bizarre snobbery of a few Tesla owners that only Teslas are worthy goes against Tesla's own reason for being.
The exaggerated defensiveness of Teslarati in this thread demonstrates it. They are totally terrified of BMW's EV's.
Unctuous sublimely.
2007 Prius was rated 46 mpg.
Rented a 2016 Prius in SLC and it zipped right up Parley's Summit on I80 just fine. Total two day MPG at high altitude, high speed (70 mpg speed limit) and the Prius got 56.7 MPG.
The redesigned plug-in Prius coming out in 2017(?) is going to likely have the same MPGe rating as the TS70. A great car for anyone looking to significantly cut their oil use and GHG emissions.
Out of curiosity, are the Eagles a high school team in Portland?
Out of curiosity, have you ever seen a thread of such near hysteric Tesla snobs terrified of Tesla competitors?
Eagles are an NFL/NFC East team that is going to be last in NFC east for years due to getting rid of Chip Kelly and trading away three years of draft picks for a 3rd round, 2nd tier college QB who had one good year and will never beat out Sam Bradford.
Eagles owner Jeff Lurie has a Tesla and runs Eagles stadium with futuristic wind turbines mounted atop the stadium.
